The future of the X-Men on the big screen

[Wolverine12]

Ready for the heart and the quips.

See the latest Spider-Man if you're worried by Endgame.

I think Endgame is a better example than the new Spider-man movie. I actually thought the Far From Home was bad.... You can balance humor and gravitas though.

gimme quipcrawler
gimme quip mccoy
gimme jean quip
gimme scott attempting to quip but looking like a dumbass
gimme unexpected storm quips
gimme quip quippington the third
icequip is required by law

QUIPS ARE CRITICAL

QUIPS ARE QUIPTICAL!

[Maestro 216]

I would like a more serious film with the X-Men, but let's not act like that going fully into grimdark is the answer. I would say make the first trailer something like Age of Ultron's first trailer.

[CRaymond]

I worry they’ll have a hard time writing jokes for Storm if they also want her doing elemental monologues.

If they hire comedic actors, like RDJR, Evans, Pratt, Hemsworth, and the rest —that’s half the work.

Which is why I think there’s space for Michaela Coel to audition for Ororo. She’s a talented writer, comedienne, and dramatic actor. Plus she’s got HUGE features that convey emotion all the way to the balcony bleachers.

[Killerbee911]

I never get why fans over sell their opinion as way it should be and throw words like "immature humor franchise". I don't even care to have the discussion on artistic merit. Point Blank the "immature humor franchises" have 8 movies in top 25 grossing movies ever. I can see it now Marvel going "You know what I know our movies out sold Fox and DCEU, but you know what we need to movie need to make movies like those that didn't do as well ours. Our horrible average movie Captain Marvel made billion dollars, Fox horrible average movie Dark Phoenix has made about 245 million worldwide. The maybe very best comic book movie Logan made 619 million, Antman and Wasp made 622 million".

I love X2, DoFP, Logan, I love Dark Knight, Man of Steel, I love Spiderman 2. Every studio has produce great movies even you think they are better MCU movies it is undeniable that MCU has deep mature movies like Iron Man,Black Panther, Winter Soldier and Avenger Infinity War. Hope the X-men are like those movies BUT if those movies aren't good enough for you, Marvel isn't changing their style you don't like humor in movies that sucks for you. They will be humor in Marvel movies and Marvel has billion reason not change. There is no reason to discuss another style because Marvel studios ain't changing. DCEU biggest success was Aquaman which could easily be marvel movie, Fox biggest success was Deadpool, Sony killed with Venom. It is easy to see the pattern

As people have mention some characters style leading to quipping. Captain America isn't a quipper,Black Panther isn't a quipper their movies have been generally more serious, Thor was in that category but change him after Dark World did bad for a MCU movie. Black Widow,Scarlet Witch and Hawkeye are really quippers you can expect their projects to lean to more serious because of that. Iron Man, Dr Strange, and Captain Marvel are arrogant characters,superiority makes for great sarcasm which is an element of humor. Peter Quill,Antman and Spiderman are quippers. Other than Thor Ragnarok what movie had incorrect tone for the characters in it ?

Bringin it back to topic Jubilee, Iceman, Beast and Nightcrawler are characters I expect to have some levity. Emma Frost will probably end up with dry scarticisic lines because of the her superiority arrogance angle. The vast majority of X-men characters aren't based in humor. Wolverine and Cyclops are both straight men in terms of comedy. Storm archetype leans to heavily dramatic shakespearean almost which tends to lean to serious. X-men have a lot serious subject matter which should lead to general serious movies. The difference is in the MCU you go into space that is a chance for a big joke to make audience happy like in endgame with Rocket and telling everyone not to throw up. In Dark Phoenix you get small quip from Quicksilver "we are doing space missions now" and then long bits of drama. Is the MCU scene any less impactful? No you still get Cap and Widow serious talk,The scene still has tension because they are about to face Thanos. The banter back forth is what gets you like characters and is what makes care when they get hurt or die. Humor is a great tool.

[Beaddle]

Though I'd posted this already. What the heck? Oh, well

Uh...
It was a different story.

A different story for sure.

No idea what you're talking about.

I recommend that you watch other movies that have the same premise as Endgame. dragon ball z was pretty well known in the United States.

Wrong, Back to the Future and Star Trek embraced it. You don't want to argue with me on the latter; Star Trek is one thing I know forwards and backwards.
For reference, the quote in question is:

Dr Emmett Brown is hyper. I won't call him a clown. Star Trek does not belong in any conversation with the MCU. This is one series Disney won't buy if they had the chance.

You want another example, Star Wars.

The humor in Star Wars Episode 7 and especially Episode 8 were annoying. The Humor in Episode 1 was annoying.

"[The audience laughing at the humor is] the only sign you get when you're in the dark theater that they are with you...I also believe that laughter is the way you hook the audience. Then you can scare them. Then you can touch them deeper than they were expecting to in a film about a tree and a raccoon and aliens that don't understand metaphors. Humor is the secret into the audience's other ranges of emotions." - Kevin Feige

This is not applicable to other film series. I am not completely sure it is still true in the MCU.

You're not helping your case here by citing stuff that disproves your point.

A writer became the first billionaire author by not relying on juvenile humor to sell wizard fantasy to young readers. It proves my point that you don't need it.

I think Spider-Verse deserved it on all counts. (Incredibles II was good and made itself more then just a sequel, but it was "just" another solid movie over something groundbreaking).

Funny, though, Spider-Verse has more in common with the MCU and Pixar then with the Fox X-Men movies in terms of construction, emotional depth, and, yes, making humor a key component. Puzzle that one out.

The original X-Men movies emotional moments are not ruined with humor every second. The dramatic tone is built up for the emotional pay off. MCU has no balance, the humor cup spills all over the place.

Every Spider-Man movie struggles to out of the shadow of the Raimi movies. The ASM ones couldn't, Spider-Verse embraced the older movies, and the MCU just does its own thing.

(Also, this is Spider-Man. Of course his stories will lean to the Pixar side of things. That's the character.)

Do you now want another reboot X-Men to struggle to get out of the shadows of the oringal X-Men movies like Spiderman is struggling? Spider-verse is not struggling to remain in the shadows of the Raimi movies. MCU doing their own thing with Spiderman is not too different from Kinberg trying to do his own thing with his X-Men reboot. Spiderman is not on the Pixar side of things. Peter Parker is more cynical than your average pixar character. He can be emotionally distant, a loner, the every man, a bad husband, a bad friend, exclusive, depressed, difficult and gritty in battle. Spiderman is deeply flawed. Pixar characters are meant to be good role models with little flaws.

And Pixar; double-check their filmography sometime.

Pixar films are meant to be for a young audience. Pixar is not Spirited Away. Pixar trying to act mature would be a bad idea.

And the old Batman cartoon.

The old Batman cartoon should be compared to the old X-Men cartoon.

The mutual success of Logan and the MCU indicates you can. Besides, a five+ years break will help any kind of transition. (Also, I recall Logan having plenty of funny moments in it, despite being the grittiest of them all. Heck, I find the quiet moments stick out more then the R-rated stuff.

Thing is, Logan was mature, not because it was telling a serious story or because it had R-rated violence and all that. It was mature because of how it explored the characters and thematics. That stuff can be found in both the most serious dramas and the the most light-hearted comedies. You want to prove that the MCU is immature in its storytelling?

The mutual success of Logan and the MCU means MCU should embrace all the styles of Marvel movies that has come before.I fully focused on the nuts and bolts of what stops Endgame from reaching the best of itself. Dismal cliche third act, short bad time travel plot device, fat thor, stick in the mud dystopian story. All the problems listed are all tied to immature storytelling.

Stop complaining about it having lots of jokes and focus on the nuts and bolts that actually matter in regards to the question.

The jokes are part of the problem. Again the complains are getting raised again in Far from Home.

I know I've had this conversation before. Heck, I think it might've been both of us. Weren't you banned again before? You really don't know what the word "mature" means, do you?

I was never banned. This conversation is quite popular with X-Men. Marvel never got more ''mature'' after X-Men: the animated series until the Blade film and X-Men 1, two years later. Neither X-Men 1, Blade and X-Men The animated series have any ties to where Marvel is now.There needs to be room for them again.

[Killerbee911]

The mutual success of Logan and the MCU means MCU should embrace all the styles of Marvel movies that has come before.I fully focused on the nuts and bolts of what stops Endgame from reaching the best of itself. Dismal cliche third act, short bad time travel plot device, fat thor, stick in the mud dystopian story. All the problems listed are all tied to immature storytelling.

.

Once again Logan made 614 million, Antman and Wasp made 622 million. The problem you have with Marvel movies are YOUR problems there is no large issue to talk about. The movie you are talking about is the second highest gross movie of all time. Your personal feelings do not speak for the general public and they don't reflect the actual response to the movie. Your criticism meaning nothing to big picture if MCU had struggle like Dark Phoenix you might have a point If they perform like Godzilla or MIB 4 you have a point. Marvel has zero reason to change the style of movies, Spiderman Far Home is at 577 million worldwide. You can be critical of MCU movies as much you want but until box office drops of cliff, they have no reason to change what they are doing.

X-men is going to have humor. Nobody can give a logical reason for X-men to not have humor in it. There is no argument that wouldn't get a person fire on the spot for suggesting that you make a movie more like ones at Fox. Your personal taste have you disliking jokes and humor fine you are free to your opinion but thinking Marvel is going to something different than what has worked for about 22 now 23 movies is funny. This is not taste argument this a business argument. You can't argue against the businesses of the MCU.Period. Making what you call immature humor-filled movies is making Disney billions of dollars. clearly, the public movie-going audience is fine what is being produced

[Theleviathan]

I would like a more serious film with the X-Men, but let's not act like that going fully into grimdark is the answer. I would say make the first trailer something like Age of Ultron's first trailer.

You want the Avengers movie everyone agrees was the worst?

[Graphicisnovel]

You want the Avengers movie everyone agrees was the worst?

First of all....the reference was to the trailer, not the movie.

Second, there has not been an ensemble superhero movie that has balanced the cast equally and effectively since Age of Ultron. I think all the members needed to be there. I think the X-men could borrow that as well.

That said I dont think we'll see X-men for many more years...

[ChildOfTheAtom]

You want the Avengers movie everyone agrees was the worst?

I think the first Avenger's is the worst

[Theleviathan]

First of all....the reference was to the trailer, not the movie.

Second, there has not been an ensemble superhero movie that has balanced the cast equally and effectively since Age of Ultron. I think all the members needed to be there. I think the X-men could borrow that as well.

That said I dont think we'll see X-men for many more years...

I think there are plenty of MCU movies that show they know how to balance an ensemble. This dark vs. quippy thing is kinda silly IMO.

[Havok83]

I think the first Avenger's is the worst

You are definitely in the minority with that one

[ChildOfTheAtom]

You are definitely in the minority with that one

Most of my MCU rankings aren't popular opinions... oh well

Age Of Ultron > Avengers

GotG II > GotG I

Ironman III > Ironman I

The Dark World > Thor

[WebLurker]

A different story for sure.

So, why must we forced to apply to standards that aren't used to judge its genre?

I recommend that you watch other movies that have the same premise as Endgame. dragon ball z was pretty well known in the United States.

I'm a sci-fi fan with a fondness for time travel. I know the tropes and that Endgame had some clever ideas in it (and that it was smart enough to avoid the easy outs and plot holes that so often plague "change the past" stories).

Dr Emmett Brown is hyper. I won't call him a clown.

I honestly can't see much of a difference between the movies and the MCU in terms of tone and all that (although the MCU does have less profanity, to be fair).

Star Trek does not belong in any conversation with the MCU. This is one series Disney won't buy if they had the chance.

Tribbles. That is all. (Push this further and mercy will not be shown; like I said, this is one thing I know.)

The humor in Star Wars Episode 7 and especially Episode 8 were annoying. The Humor in Episode 1 was annoying.

Remember the original movies? Chock full of one-liners and comic relief alongside the dramatic moments. Sounds a lot a modern movie series I'm aware of, the something-CU. Maybe you're aware of it?

This is not applicable to other film series.

Except Star Wars, classic Disney, Pirates of the Caribbean, Princess Bride, Pixar, Ghostbusters, etc. Need I go on?

I am not completely sure it is still true in the MCU.

Hello? Guardians of the frickin' Galaxy? Thor?

A writer became the first billionaire author by not relying on juvenile humor to sell wizard fantasy to young readers. It proves my point that you don't need it.

That assumes that the MCU relies on juvenile humor, which has yet to be proven to be the selling point, much less juvenile in the first place. Heck, I

The original X-Men movies emotional moments are not ruined with humor every second. The dramatic tone is built up for the emotional pay off.

Like the deaths/funerals of Frigga and Yondu (Thor: The Dark World and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2)? Thor's first steps to learning humility after being arrested by SHIELD (Thor)? Phil Coulson dying (Avengers)? Nick Fury "dying" (Captain America: The Winter Soldier), (Captain America being honest with Black Widow (Captain America: The Winter Soldier)? The relational scenes between Gamorra and Nebula (Guardians of the Galaxy, Avengers: Infinity War/Endgame)? "I see losers" (Guardians of the Galaxy)?, "We are Groot" (Guardians of the Galaxy)? Killmonger's final moments (Black Panther)? Spider-Man and Vulture in the car (Spider-Man: Homecoming)? Doctor Strange saying goodbye to the Ancient One (Doctor Strange)? Ant-Man reassuring Wasp about her relationships with her parents (Ant-Man, Ant-Man and the Wasp)? Everyone when getting the Soul Stone on Vormir (Avengers: Infinity War/Endgame)? The Snap (Avengers: Infinity War)? Captain Marvel reunited with the Rambeaus and her breakdown (Captain Marvel)? The reveal of the truth behind the Skrulls (Captain Marvel)? Ant-Man discovering that his daughter survived the Snap (Avengers: Endgame)? The Avengers assembling (Avengers: Endgame)? Thanos dying (Avengers: Endgame)? Iron Man's death and funeral (Avengers: Endgame)?

Tough customer, much?

MCU has no balance, the humor cup spills all over the place.

See above.

Do you now want another reboot X-Men to struggle to get out of the shadows of the oringal X-Men movies like Spiderman is struggling?

Why worry about stuff you can't control? Besides, Marvel Studios has a pretty impressive track record; I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt until we actually get the movie. (Besides, it is a chance for characters the old movies never used to get their shot; would love to see New X-Men adapted. Also, who's to say that an MCU X-Men movie series wouldn't do better then the Fox one? While I think it's safe to say that the Raimi movies cast a long shadow on the Spidey franchise, I'm not sure the Fox movies hold quite the same place in their franchise. In any event, as Spider-Verse and the MCU movies have shown, the new can co-exist alongside the old.)

Spider-verse is not struggling to remain in the shadows of the Raimi movies.

Well, no, but notice how the movie borrows heavily from them in terms of references, jokes, backstories (to the extent that the movie might as well be Spider-Man 4)?

MCU doing their own thing with Spiderman is not too different from Kinberg trying to do his own thing with his X-Men reboot.

And both were more then a sight better then the ASM movies, which really tried to do stuff differently and kinda raised the question of why one should watch that over the originals.

Spiderman is not on the Pixar side of things. Peter Parker is more cynical than your average pixar character. He can be emotionally distant, a loner, the every man, a bad husband, a bad friend, exclusive, depressed, difficult and gritty in battle. Spiderman is deeply flawed. Pixar characters are meant to be good role models with little flaws.

Ever see Toy Story or Up?

Pixar films are meant to be for a young audience. Pixar is not Spirited Away.

You do realize Pixar is the ambassador of "family movies," meaning films that are made for both younger and older audiences.

Pixar trying to act mature would be a bad idea.

In a post-Inside Out world, that is not a defensible position, if it ever was in the first place.

The old Batman cartoon should be compared to the old X-Men cartoon.

Funny, I thought that the Batman cartoon was what '90s X-Men wished it was?

The mutual success of Logan and the MCU means MCU should embrace all the styles of Marvel movies that has come before.

Didn't the TV shows do that?

I fully focused on the nuts and bolts of what stops Endgame from reaching the best of itself. Dismal cliche third act, short bad time travel plot device, fat thor, stick in the mud dystopian story. All the problems listed are all tied to immature storytelling.

No, you were "focusing" on the MCU being "too funny," and not even coming up with a good explanation why that was bad or hurt the series. Far as I can tell, I'm the only one interested in the nuts and bolts of the thing, much less bringing them up.

The jokes are part of the problem.

An unproven claim, at best.

Again the complains are getting raised again in Far from Home.

That does not mesh with literally everything else I've heard. (And, once again, it's Spider-Man; that's what you get.)

I was never banned.

Okay then, but you do seem to have the exact same pet peeves of another guy who was banned here a few times, down to invoking the old X-Men cartoon.

This conversation is quite popular with X-Men.

Not around here, where the default seems to be: "Kill the Fox series with fire, so Marvel can make the movies great again."

Marvel never got more ''mature'' after X-Men: the animated series until the Blade film and X-Men 1, two years later. Neither X-Men 1, Blade and X-Men The animated series have any ties to where Marvel is now.There needs to be room for them again.

As noted before, you seem to think "mature" means "serious," which is not what it means in regards to storytelling (which is why I keep invoking Pixar, since it's a good example of what I'm saying).

[Beaddle]

So, why must we forced to apply to standards that aren't used to judge its genre?

Time travel is such an overused trope in stories. Standards are brought in to try and separate the best cliches from the worst cliches of the trope.

Tribbles. That is all. (Push this further and mercy will not be shown; like I said, this is one thing I know.)

The Mirror Universe, Yesterday's Enterprise.

Why worry about stuff you can't control? Besides, Marvel Studios has a pretty impressive track record; I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt until we actually get the movie. (Besides, it is a chance for characters the old movies never used to get their shot; would love to see New X-Men adapted. Also, who's to say that an MCU X-Men movie series wouldn't do better then the Fox one? While I think it's safe to say that the Raimi movies cast a long shadow on the Spidey franchise, I'm not sure the Fox movies hold quite the same place in their franchise. In any event, as Spider-Verse and the MCU movies have shown, the new can co-exist alongside the old.)

Raimi only made 2 films to cast a long shadow on other Spiderman movies. Fox made about 6 films that would cast a longer shadow, among the 6 films was Logan, in contest to be a more important film than The Dark Knight. Logan didn’t have the Heath Ledger momentum to drive it. X-Men 2 is the best thing X-Men had to Spiderman 2, there are other heavy contenders like Days of future past, a mature time travel dystopian film Endgame couldn’t be. There are the crazy kids like Deadpool that turned humor into the street art of the 80s SNL not treat humor as a cheap trick for immaturity.

There was X-men 1, a film that set the entire genre on full reverse, an impact that still holds up today on how to make a serious film about comic book characters. It is these 6 movies that has made most come to the conclusion X-Men is more mature than the MCU. It is what made me personally come to the conclusion MCU needs to use their mulitverse concept to create an adult contemporary universe of not just X-men but for Blade, The Punisher and Daredevil.

And both were more then a sight better then the ASM movies, which really tried to do stuff differently and kinda raised the question of why one should watch that over the originals.

Only slightly better than the ASM movies. The idea implanted that reboot xmen will only be slightly better than the last Kinberg reboot xmen is nauseating to me. Can FFH be worse than dark phoenix? I can see it with captain marvel,not a spiderman movie.

That does not mesh with literally everything else I've heard. (And, once again, it's Spider-Man; that's what you get.)

I expect Spider-Man. The Spiderman.

Ever see Toy Story or Up?

Toy story and Up have some mature moments with beautiful light spins that does not need to fracture the mind of young viewers.

Okay then, but you do seem to have the exact same pet peeves of another guy who was banned here a few times, down to invoking the old X-Men cartoon.

The old xmen cartoon was far from my mind, I remembered it when you brought up the old batman cartoon. Its a first instinct if you are on a board about X-Men talking about cartoons. 90s X-Men was one of the best shows of the 90s, it never wished it could be batman because it was great on its own. If Marvel's present entertainment had any resemblance to 90s xmen, maturity won't be a topic.

Didn't the TV shows do that?

We are talking about movies.

Not around here, where the default seems to be: "Kill the Fox series with fire, so Marvel can make the movies great again."

The sense I get around here is where do you go from the original movies, ''make xmen movies great again'' by using the immature formulaic MCU is not a default.

As noted before, you seem to think "mature" means "serious," which is not what it means in regards to storytelling (which is why I keep invoking Pixar, since it's a good example of what I'm saying).

''Serious'' is one important building blocks of maturity. I don't know why you keep using pixar, are you saying pixar is still a lot more mature than the MCU? X-Men is not going to Pixar, it is going to marvel studios. Pixar is not a real part of the conversation.

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

You want the Avengers movie everyone agrees was the worst?

I think Endgame is the worst by a country mile, but I understand that I'm in the minority there. Age of Ultron looks like The Godfather compared to Endgame.

As for the X-Men and humor subject, the Fox X-Men movies had humor in them, but it never served to undercut the narrative or stakes. I just don't want a Thor: Ragnarok situation, where there's so much of it that it destroys characters (Korg) and undermines the overall narrative. Age of Ultron suffered from the overuse of humor (not nearly as much as Ragnarok), but it was mostly due to the fact that the Whedon-speak got a bit out of control at times (sorry, but Ultron doesn't quip). Thankfully, it didn't get to the point where the narrative was diminished.

This is all wholly subjective, of course.

To put it more simply, it's ok to have the occasional joke and lighthearted character, but don't turn every character into a lighthearted quipper or use so much humor that it lessens your narrative.