Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Omega Alpha]

Here's one: Neither Scott nor Logan is the greatest leader that the X-Men have had in the last few years. Neither is Kitty, neither is Ororo, neither is Emma. It's Jean, from both X-Men Blue and X-Men Red, or Magneto.

Jean led one team for eleven issues against one opponent, and getting help from the Avengers to boot. Afterwards, she suffered one of the worst defeats the X-men ever had in Disassembled. Havok has a better track record than she does.

Unpopular opinions... aight then.

How about Wolverine being a better X-leader than Cyclops as he didn't as many students killed while under his leadership.y.

That requires you to ignore Uncanny X-force, because every single decision Logan made there, without exception, turned out to be a failure that came back to haunt him and the team. Also, the fact he didn't do much leadership at all in WatXM, just letting other people do his job for him while he was avenging/fighting ninjas/getting booze.

Also, ignores the fact that Scott lost more students, but he unquestionably and undeniably saved more lives, including Logan's, many, many times. It's like saying a general with dozens of battles under his his belt is worse than another one that only commanded a few because the latter lost less men.

Also, Storm has been shown to be resentful of Scott quite a few times, and slept with Logan both before and after Schism, so her opinion is hardly proof of anything.

Basically, your opinion only works if you ignore 56 years of X-men history to focus on Schism, and even then that would make it very debatable.

[Harpsikord]

Jean led one team for eleven issues against one opponent, and getting help from the Avengers to boot. Afterwards, she suffered one of the worst defeats the X-men ever had in Disassembled. Havok has a better track record than she does.

That's also why I mentioned that I wasn't explicitly just talking about X-Men Red. I'm referring to teen Jean in All New X-Men and potentially more relevantly since they were on their own, X-Men Blue.

Plus they both kind of did their thing in Extermination, and adult Jean performed well in Disassembled until Nate pulled the Life Seed card.

Jean beat Nate in Disassembled. Then he pulled out his Deus Ex Machina.

[Omega Alpha]

Jean beat Nate in Disassembled. Then he pulled out his Deus Ex Machina.

In other worlds, she lost, badly, in part because she underestimated her opponent's capacities, and had the entire X-men at her adversary's mercy as puppets for months . Still, regarding Blue, they hardly did all that much.

[Harpsikord]

In other worlds, she lost, badly, in part because she underestimated her opponent's capacities, and had the entire X-men at her adversary's mercy as puppets for months . Still, regarding Blue, they hardly did all that much.

X-Men Blue did plenty, including repairing the entire time stream.

And no. They didn't lose because she (as well as Ororo and Kitty, mind) underestimated their opponent, they lost because their opponent had an item that was believed lost (the last time it was seen was when it reset Angel to factory settings) and amplified his powers 100 fold. They were literally up against insurmountable odds that they couldn't prepare for because they couldn't have known about it.

[Sin Nick]

Jean led one team for eleven issues against one opponent, and getting help from the Avengers to boot. Afterwards, she suffered one of the worst defeats the X-men ever had in Disassembled. Havok has a better track record than she does.



That requires you to ignore Uncanny X-force, because every single decision Logan made there, without exception, turned out to be a failure that came back to haunt him and the team. Also, the fact he didn't do much leadership at all in WatXM, just letting other people do his job for him while he was avenging/fighting ninjas/getting booze.

Also, ignores the fact that Scott lost more students, but he unquestionably and undeniably saved more lives, including Logan's, many, many times. It's like saying a general with dozens of battles under his his belt is worse than another one that only commanded a few because the latter lost less men.

Also, Storm has been shown to be resentful of Scott quite a few times, and slept with Logan both before and after Schism, so her opinion is hardly proof of anything.

Basically, your opinion only works if you ignore 56 years of X-men history to focus on Schism, and even then that would make it very debatable.

I see your opinion and I respect, but I'm sticking with mine. My ranking of X-leaders would be...

1. Storm
2. Rogue
3. Wolverine
4. Cable
5. Cyclops/90's Havok

[PsychoEFrost]

X-Men Blue did plenty, including repairing the entire time stream.

And no. They didn't lose because she (as well as Ororo and Kitty, mind) underestimated their opponent, they lost because their opponent had an item that was believed lost (the last time it was seen was when it reset Angel to factory settings) and amplified his powers 100 fold. They were literally up against insurmountable odds that they couldn't prepare for because they couldn't have known about it.

She also lost 2/7th of her team in Blue, a 28.5% fatality rate. And that's if you don't include Jeen herself dying, and psionically bringing herself back to life.

[Harpsikord]

She also lost 2/7th of her team in Blue, a 28.5% fatality rate. And that's if you don't include Jeen herself dying, and psionically bringing herself back to life.

Jimmy didn't die, he left on his own. And Bloodstorm got killed when they were off the clock - not something she's responsible for.

[Omega Alpha]

I see your opinion and I respect, but I'm sticking with mine. My ranking of X-leaders would be...

1. Storm
2. Rogue
3. Wolverine
4. Cable
5. Cyclops/90's Havok

Sure you can stick with it, but this is a favorite characters list, clearly. There's really no reasonable criteria to put Wolverine, Rogue or Havok ahead of Cyclops.

[powerpax]

I would agree re: Krakoa and the Genosha/Utopia mistake in theory, except I feel they're doing something at Krakoa that they (to my recollection - I wasn't much of an avid reader during the period) never did on Utopia or at Genosha - initiated a proactive trade war and infrastructure to cement their place in the world. It wasn't enough to settle off the coast of progressive San Fran and make glitzy PR moves that don't resonate outside a few sympathetic enclaves. Direct action is required, and now the mutants are a much more substantial threat to the established order. Not just a cause célèbre.

My UOs(?):

• I will always like Madelyne more than Jean, it doesn't matter how many corny latter-day stories Maddy gets.
• Planet X was the best and most brutal ending for Magneto. It inflames fandom to this day but that Xorneto reveal - and the subsequent, vicious takedown of aging radicals - was one of the greatest X-Men moments in history. It was the last time I never really saw a twist coming. I'm fine with where he is today as a character, but I always will believe it was him in Morrison's run and they should never have claimed it wasn't.

[SpiderClops]

Comparing a guy's leadership skills who's been in that position for years in-universe and decades in real time to two people who were in-charge for a fraction of his time combined. Seems fair. And at the same time ignoring and excusing their failures while only highlighting Scott's failures even though he was unquestionably in way worse situation than them.

I get that this is unpopular opinion, but seriously.

[CRaymond]

I have more.

PLEASE share. These are wonderful.

Thanks Harp! My computer hiccuped after I wrote a crapload combining the Szardos family with the Maximoffs. It eschews paternal mutant and Evolutionary influences for an entirely maternal secret origin. In any case, I need to cooldown and sleep on it if you want the details tomorrow.

Moving forward. You want to hear about combining the Tanaka & Yoshida families? Sunfire & Opal Tanaka? Daken & Silver Samurai? Lady Deathstrike & Matsuo Tsurayaba? Karma & Kwannon? That's just Japan, Vietnam, and Madripoor. I got a bunch of British ideas, and a huge one about combining mutant slave-state Genosha with Mojoverse.

[kevinism]

Jean led one team for eleven issues against one opponent, and getting help from the Avengers to boot. Afterwards, she suffered one of the worst defeats the X-men ever had in Disassembled. Havok has a better track record than she does.




That requires you to ignore Uncanny X-force, because every single decision Logan made there, without exception, turned out to be a failure that came back to haunt him and the team. Also, the fact he didn't do much leadership at all in WatXM, just letting other people do his job for him while he was avenging/fighting ninjas/getting booze.

Also, ignores the fact that Scott lost more students, but he unquestionably and undeniably saved more lives, including Logan's, many, many times. It's like saying a general with dozens of battles under his his belt is worse than another one that only commanded a few because the latter lost less men.

Also, Storm has been shown to be resentful of Scott quite a few times, and slept with Logan both before and after Schism, so her opinion is hardly proof of anything.

Basically, your opinion only works if you ignore 56 years of X-men history to focus on Schism, and even then that would make it very debatable.

I think you're missing the point of this thread

[PsychoEFrost]

I think you're missing the point of this thread

If the point is "it's just an opinion", I disagree with it.

"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion of 'my opinion just as good as your knowledge'." - Isaac Asimov.

"The validity of an opinion is the giver's ability to defend it." - Socrates.

[GodfatherIV]

Thanks Harp! My computer hiccuped after I wrote a crapload combining the Szardos family with the Maximoffs. It eschews paternal mutant and Evolutionary influences for an entirely maternal secret origin. In any case, I need to cooldown and sleep on it if you want the details tomorrow.

Moving forward. You want to hear about combining the Tanaka & Yoshida families? Sunfire & Opal Tanaka? Daken & Silver Samurai? Lady Deathstrike & Matsuo Tsurayaba? Karma & Kwannon? That's just Japan, Vietnam, and Madripoor. I got a bunch of British ideas, and a huge one about combining mutant slave-state Genosha with Mojoverse.

Hell yeah. Let's hear them all. These are great. I have a few. Should I create a thread for it all so it doesn't get lost in this one?

[CRaymond]

Hell yeah. Let's hear them all. These are great. I have a few. Should I create a thread for it all so it doesn't get lost in this one?

Sure. We complain all the time about too many mutants. Maybe we’d have fun making room by infinity warping them all together.