All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[sammy_hansen]

Well, the locals have to look at it every day. To use your example, if there was already a statue of Hitler standing in Bavaria, and the Bavarians wanted it gone, but were forced to keep it by the residents of Saxony, Saarland, and Schleswig-Holstein, I would side more with the residents of Bavaria.

I think we may have Godwinned this discussion, btw.

I think you missed my point. If 5 rednecks love a statue of Davis does that mean it gets to stay? How many people does it take for a statue to stay? 5? 10? 1000?

OR... What if the national country of all the same citizens decides, “Hey, this person was abhorrent and evil, let’s tear it down.”



And Re: Godwin... oh no, we’ve got a long way to go...

[MiddleMan]

Jefferson Davis should have been executed

[aja_christopher]

[aja_christopher]

"As researchers of street gangs and far-right groups, we see that in this case, they want to stoke a civil war between the races – one they think they can win. By antagonizing police, destroying property, or intimidating the public by adopting military gear – including weapons – these groups are attempting to instigate violence between the police, protesters, and the public. Rousting law enforcement to violently retaliate against black people en masse is the first step.

Instigating civil war

The far-right is not unified by a strict ideology. It is a broad movement with various factions vying for greater amounts of attention and influence. In spite of this tension, our research shows that many share the conspiracy belief that Western governments are corrupt and controlled by the New World Order, a cabal of wealthy Jewish elites. To them, wealthy Jewish investor and democracy advocate George Soros is the puppet master of the world economy.

William Luther Pierce’s 1978 novel “The Turner Diaries,” which has come to be known as “the bible of the racist right,” lays out a plan to instigate a race war and bring about the federal government’s collapse. The book has inspired violence from the far-right, most notably the 1995 bombing at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

“Accelerationism” – the idea that inducing chaos, provoking law enforcement, and promoting political tension will hasten the collapse of Western government – has taken root among far-right groups. One such group, the “Boogaloo Bois,” identified by their penchant for wearing Hawaiian shirts, has been observed at protests in Minnesota, Florida, Georgia, Texas, Pennsylvania, Colorado and Oregon. As with any far-right movement, “Boogaloo Bois” groups are rather unstructured and have varied beliefs, lacking any hierarchical organization.

In Las Vegas, three “Boogaloo Bois” were arrested with firearms and a plan to incite violence during George Floyd protests. Social media posts and online chat groups have also shown them attempting to infiltrate other protests across the country. Joining the crowds provides these groups an opportunity to discredit protesters by inciting looting, rioting, violence and vandalism – which they hope will spark like-minded white Americans to resist the civil disobedience of protesters. Already there are roving bands of armed white counter-protesters at protests across America.

Other far-right extremists are talking on social media about the protests requiring a lot of police attention and see an opportunity to engage in targeted terror attacks. Their overall intention is the same: fanning flames to burn down the federal government, making room for them to establish a whites-only country."

http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/...-black-people/

[aja_christopher]

and the GOP knows once they are out of power, thats it

for at least a generation or 3

One might have thought the same thing after Bush led this nation into it's worst international and economic disasters in generations only a decade or so ago.

But Republicans turned around and launched racist attacks on Obama ("birtherism") after destroying our economy, while simultaneously blaming him for the economic problems they created.



It's a mistake to understimate the Republican penchant for lying, stealing, bigotry and engaging in systemic corruption -- all many of them want is someone who is smarter about it than Trump.

[JackDaw]

I don’t think tearing down statutes by itself usually does anything useful..though in UK right now it has flushed out some far right nutters.

As I posted way back in this thread I would like to see a new law passed in UK to force companies employing more than a couple of hundred people to publish each year a breakdown of their work force, analysing sex and race employed at each level of the organisation.

I think that would reveal a discrepancy between many firms who talk a wonderful “game” and their actual hiring and remuneration packages.

People could then buy goods according to their beliefs and conscience.

[aja_christopher]

I don’t think tearing down statutes by itself usually does anything useful...

Which is why many here have suggested placing them in museums and/or replacing them with monuments that better reflect modern society.

And that films such as "Gone With the Wind" be shown with a precursor that places the film in historical context.

[Tendrin]

Which is why many here have suggested placing them in museums and/or replacing them with monuments that better reflect modern society.

And that films such as "Gone With the Wind" be shown with a precursor that places the film in historical context.

It was pointed out to me how few movies are told from the Union Perspective, how few monuments are dedicated to the Union. It's almost all entirely dedicated to the South. It's part of the larger lost cause mythology and general 'southerification' of the post-Civil War USA that accelrated from the Civil War on.

[aja_christopher]

It was pointed out to me how few movies are told from the Union Perspective, how few monuments are dedicated to the Union. It's almost all entirely dedicated to the South. It's part of the larger lost cause mythology and general 'southerification' of the post-Civil War USA that accelrated from the Civil War on.

The entertainment industry wanted to cater to the South -- it's also why you didn't (and still don't) see interracial and LGBT relationships in most mainstream films.



"Nichelle Nichols says NBC execs originally wanted to shoot two different versions of the scene between her and William Shatner locked lips to avoid outrage among Southern affiliates, but "Bill was deliberately trying to flub it up"..."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...ss-star-896843

[Tendrin]

The entertainment industry wanted to cater to the South -- it's also why you didn't (and still don't) see interracial and LGBT relationships in most mainstream films.

Correct. It's why I roll my eyes at the talk of 'pandering to China' but 'cutting things' from US releases, when the pandering to social conservatives and bigots is plain throughout our own media.

[JackDaw]

Which is why many here have suggested placing them in museums and/or replacing them with monuments that better reflect current values.

I think if I had misfortune to be a local mayor facing complaints about a statue my first suggested solution would be to put an information plaque on plinth recording the deeds of person concerned.

If people were still really unhappy after that...certainly placing in a museum would be next step. (Assumes it is of museum quality, of course.)

Destroying the statue would..for me..be the last resort. But certainly, I can think of some circumstances when I would back that last resort cheerfully. (I would love to see a statue of Paul Robeson somewhere in UK, so I would be happy if a statue of a slaver was melted down to provide the bronze.)

[Gray Lensman]

It was pointed out to me how few movies are told from the Union Perspective, how few monuments are dedicated to the Union. It's almost all entirely dedicated to the South. It's part of the larger lost cause mythology and general 'southerification' of the post-Civil War USA that accelrated from the Civil War on.

I think I'll put a list of Northern Perspective films from the Civil War.

Glory - this is probably the best known of them, while the unit (and Matthew Broderick's Col. Shaw) is real, the majority of the characters in the film are fictional.

The Red Badge of Courage - based on a book written before the Lost Cause took root.

Horse Soldiers - yes, a John Wayne film actually makes it onto the list.

There is a civil war segment in How the West Was Won, featuring Harry Morgan as Grant and John Wayne (!?) as Sherman. That part of the film was directed by John Ford.

Gettysburg shows both sides, but also has an epic scene on Little Round Top.

There are other films set against the war but not really about it, like Lincoln and Gangs of New York.

This is another thing we can blame Jim Crow for - early in the silent era most civil war films were told from the Union perspective, but then D. W. Griffith happened, and that was pretty much the end of that.

[Tami]

It was pointed out to me how few movies are told from the Union Perspective, how few monuments are dedicated to the Union. It's almost all entirely dedicated to the South. It's part of the larger lost cause mythology and general 'southerification' of the post-Civil War USA that accelrated from the Civil War on.

This made me wonder, so I looked up some articles on Civil War movies

Critic's Picks: The 10 Best Civil War Films

Aside from Documentaries and Docu-Dramas, most were told from the South or Confederate side.

The Best Civil War Movies of All Time

this list is similar, but there are a few more from the Union side than the previous list.

[worstblogever]

That one on your radar, WBE?

100% in the queue, yes.

And as far as Bob Good, it's a guy who just ousted Bigfoot porn enthusiast Denver Riggleman, who pissed off the mainstream GOP by showing some support for same sex marriage. (Because nothing short of the extreme is acceptable to the party anymore).

On Good, check this quote:

Good has pledged to restore “Judeo-Christian” values to Congress. He’s also a hardliner on immigration and wants English to be the official language of the U.S.

Two of those things are unconstitutional. The first is a violation of church and state. The last was ruled as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1999.

So... yeah, looks like Good will get into the queue.

[Tendrin]

So... yeah, looks like Good will get into the queue.

You may not have to worry about him, though. He failed to file the proper paperwork.

https://bluevirginia.us/2020/06/ive-...t-of-elections