Wandavision

[Albert1981]

Honestly, what does prestige tv even mean anymore?

I can understand why people could be put off by the sitcom format. They replicated the old sets to such a degree the corniness has turned to cringe, but I assumed that's part of the creepiness factor. I myself don't care for most of the shows they're referencing before 2000 (I watched Malcom and Modern family when they were on), but I though the whole thing is here to disturb us.

I hope this has nothing to do with mutants. Scarlet Witch, Vision and Quicksilver all deserve their own stories.

When people say prestige TV, I think folks mean shows like the Sopranos, the Wire and Twin Peaks. They're considered serious dramas, while Marvel and DC projects are regarded largely as capeshit garbage. I preferred the more modern sitcoms as well, but I do understand why they used that format. Like you said, the unsettling nature of the surroundings added to the atmosphere of the series. I don't think mutants will play a role in the last episode. I agree with your comments. It should be all about Wanda's family.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, I agree with you. I liked Wanda and Vision fine in the movies, but I was definitely more invested in dudes like Stark, Strange and Thor. Even Nick Fury. Because they were basically assholes and goofballs and I like those kinds of personalities. I will be very sad when Vision dies on Friday, but unlike in Infinity War, this death will have been earned. In that sense, I think the show has succeeded.

I liked Scarlet Witch and Vision since their first appearances in the MCU. They didn't have to necessarily be jerks to interest me. Guys like Falcon, Winter Soldier or Hawkeye still don't interest me that much.

[Albert1981]

This doesn’t mitigate the fact that Agatha has encountered a super powered being engaged in the act of holding thousands of men women and children in painful captivity. While Agatha isn’t having a psychotic breakdown, there’s nothing to suggest her extreme actions are motivated by evil intentions. The situation is extreme, she’s outgunned, and she saw the trajectory of the discussion when Monica tried to simply reason with Wanda. At this point there’s no evidence that Agatha is taking this route because she’s evil. She probably sees no other way forward after trying the gentle approach.

However, Journey does bring up a good point. How can Wanda become bosom buddies with Agatha after the stuff she's done in this show? The only way possible for that to happen is if the children are "fake". But the rumors of the boys being in London while shooting for Doctor Strange continues, seem to contradict that notion.

[CosmiComic]

This doesn’t mitigate the fact that Agatha has encountered a super powered being engaged in the act of holding thousands of men women and children in painful captivity. While Agatha isn’t having a psychotic breakdown, there’s nothing to suggest her extreme actions are motivated by evil intentions. The situation is extreme, she’s outgunned, and she saw the trajectory of the discussion when Monica tried to simply reason with Wanda. At this point there’s no evidence that Agatha is taking this route because she’s evil. She probably sees no other way forward after trying the gentle approach.

However, Journey does bring up a good point. How can Wanda become bosom buddies with Agatha after the stuff she's done in this show? The only way possible for that to happen is if the children are "fake". But the rumors of the boys being in London while shooting for Doctor Strange continues, seem to contradict that notion.

I feel like Agatha may have had good intentions but will to cross lines to achieve her goals.

I'm not sure what the status of the boys are.

[Wiccan]

I feel this tiktok perfectly states the issues people are having with this show this lady makes perfect sense. BtW ignore the twitter handle that dude is bold lol

https://twitter.com/i/status/1365505161527967744

Lol in this house we love and stan tom holland's c*mrag.

[Albert1981]

I liked Scarlet Witch and Vision since their first appearances in the MCU. They didn't have to necessarily be jerks to interest me. Guys like Falcon, Winter Soldier or Hawkeye still don't interest me that much.

I liked them too. But they didn't do too much in them. So they were easily overlooked. We'll see if the Falcon & Winter and Hawkeye shows improve your opinion of them. Myself? I'm looking forward to She-Hulk and Armor Wars the most.

[Albert1981]

I feel like Agatha may have had good intentions but will to cross lines to achieve her goals.

I'm not sure what the status of the boys are.

Agatha is a character that definitely confuses me. With the kids, I have no idea. I assume Monica has no idea either. Who knows. Here's a quote I found that describes my feelings toward Agatha:

"Specifically with the dog nothing has been suggested either way so we can't just assume she "killed a dog" full stop from her "I killed sparky too" line, like she's not a reliable narrator. Is it possible? yeah. Is it likely? sure. Can we definitively say that? nope. We know the dog came out of nowhere, and Agatha "killed it", but we also know Agatha can turn a bug into a bird and other magical ****. We have no idea if sparky was a real dog, a bug, or a full on illusion, or even actually dead since all the characters see is something wrapped in a blanket. Many expect Agatha to be "evil" and she killed a dog to rattle Wanda, but there's definitely enough to piece together to doubt that, so it's not shocking folks think she'll turn out alright."

[Albert1981]

I think the discussions surrounding WandaVision are just as fascinating as the mystery of the show itself. Look how this thread has gone from talking about easter eggs or theory crafting to discussing issues like depression and anxiety in greater depth. I think that's really interesting. Even the stuff I've read about folks wanting Wanda going to jail or making fun of Vision's line about grief are pretty interesting too. I'm relieved a lot of these theories haven't been true (including mine) because the show would be a crowded, convoluted mess otherwise. It's a great sign that Marvel is using the MCU+ shows primarily to tell stories and not just lay groundwork for films. I must admit though that I'm sort of getting tired of an evil version of a main character being an antagonist in a story again. I've literally seen this movie before MANY times in the MCU.

[CosmiComic]

I liked them too. But they didn't do too much in them. So they were easily overlooked. We'll see if the Falcon & Winter and Hawkeye shows improve your opinion of them. Myself? I'm looking forward to She-Hulk and Armor Wars the most.

I hope so. I too felt they weren't used properly. And I hated how Quicksilver was sacrificed for Hawkeye (and Black Widow too)

I feel Falcon, WS and Hawkeye are bland, but I think the shows will give them more characterization. I want to like all the characters. Although Hawkeye using a bow still seems stupid to me after all these years.

I'm intrigued by She-Hulk and Armor Wars.

[CosmiComic]

I think the discussions surrounding WandaVision are just as fascinating as the mystery of the show itself. Look how this thread has gone from talking about easter eggs or theory crafting to discussing issues like depression and anxiety in greater depth. I think that's really interesting. Even the stuff I've read about folks wanting Wanda going to jail or making fun of Vision's line about grief are pretty interesting too. I'm relieved a lot of these theories haven't been true (including mine) because the show would be a crowded, convoluted mess otherwise. It's a great sign that Marvel is using the MCU+ shows primarily to tell stories and not just lay groundwork for films. I must admit though that I'm sort of getting tired of an evil version of a main character being an antagonist in a story again. I've literally seen this movie before MANY times in the MCU.

The discussion is fascinating. Some of these theories are fun to consider but absolutely insane!

I don't get the whole hero and villain with same powers thing either, because it's not true to the comics. If you see the biggest foes of each Avenger, for instance, it's just made up for the movies. Iron Man vs. Mandarin, Ant-Man/Wasp/Vision vs. Ultron, Thor vs. Loki, Dr. Strange vs. Dormammu, Black Panther vs. Klaw, Hulk vs. Ross? Absorbing Man?. The only one that's actually correct might be Captain America vs. Red Skull, but he's also a foe of Falcon as well.

[CosmiComic]

Agatha is a character that definitely confuses me. With the kids, I have no idea. I assume Monica has no idea either. Who knows. Here's a quote I found that describes my feelings toward Agatha:

"Specifically with the dog nothing has been suggested either way so we can't just assume she "killed a dog" full stop from her "I killed sparky too" line, like she's not a reliable narrator. Is it possible? yeah. Is it likely? sure. Can we definitively say that? nope. We know the dog came out of nowhere, and Agatha "killed it", but we also know Agatha can turn a bug into a bird and other magical ****. We have no idea if sparky was a real dog, a bug, or a full on illusion, or even actually dead since all the characters see is something wrapped in a blanket. Many expect Agatha to be "evil" and she killed a dog to rattle Wanda, but there's definitely enough to piece together to doubt that, so it's not shocking folks think she'll turn out alright."

Interesting. They really have us guessing.

[Albert1981]

Wanda using magic creating Vision and the twins is really weird to me. She basically executed an extremely difficult yoga pose to bring Vision back. Monica pulled one of those kids out of Wanda's vagina (are we allowed to say that word on these threads?). That pregnancy looked pretty normal in my eyes. So there are CLEAR differences between Vision and the twins in terms of their origins (within the Hex) in my view.

[Albert1981]

I hope so. I too felt they weren't used properly. And I hated how Quicksilver was sacrificed for Hawkeye (and Black Widow too)

I feel Falcon, WS and Hawkeye are bland, but I think the shows will give them more characterization. I want to like all the characters. Although Hawkeye using a bow still seems stupid to me after all these years.

I'm intrigued by She-Hulk and Armor Wars.

Nothing more screentime and more effective writing can't fix. Yeah, I agree with you about the bow though. LOL. I'm intrigued by Armor Wars, She-Hulk and Secret Invasion because I really like Cheadle, Ruffalo and Jackson. They're pretty solid actors.

[Albert1981]

The discussion is fascinating. Some of these theories are fun to consider but absolutely insane!

I don't get the whole hero and villain with same powers thing either, because it's not true to the comics. If you see the biggest foes of each Avenger, for instance, it's just made up for the movies. Iron Man vs. Mandarin, Ant-Man/Wasp/Vision vs. Ultron, Thor vs. Loki, Dr. Strange vs. Dormammu, Black Panther vs. Klaw, Hulk vs. Ross? Absorbing Man?. The only one that's actually correct might be Captain America vs. Red Skull, but he's also a foe of Falcon as well.

I think Disney/Marvel Studios finds it easier thematically to have similar heroes and villains battle each other. And the battles would be more equal because the characters have similar power sets. I know I've read elsewhere that people are excited about the Visions going head to head against each other just for that reason.

[Albert1981]

Interesting. They really have us guessing.

Here's another quote that I find very interesting:

"My question is what did Agatha do that was motivated by evil? She Killed a dog. That’s bad. But did she do it because she is evil likes killing dogs or making people sad when their dog dies? No she did it to fully understand the threat that a mythical level witch, whose holding an entire town hostage, poses to society. Agatha, held kids hostage. That’s bad. But did she do it because she’s evil and likes holding kids hostage? No she did it because there’s a mystical level witch holding HUNDREDS OF KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES, and the twins are quite possibly the only leverage she can have against Wanda and Vision. Agatha explicitly says that Wanda is a dangerous threat, and Wanda’s actions support that analysis. As far as Agatha being a precautionary tale for Wanda- I agree, but it’s not that she’ll turn evil. It’s that wielding power that she doesn’t understand will motivate those around her to see her as the gigantic threat she has the potential to be. She needs to learn to control it. In the context of storytelling, the villain is the character with evil motivation to oppose the hero. You can have characters who oppose the hero for reasons that aren’t of evil motivation. You can also have anti-heroes who lack traditional heroic traits like idealism, and morality. Agatha is clearly antagonistic to Wanda, and has done some bad things, but that doesn’t make her the villain of this story."

Here's another excellent analysis of the situation in regards to Wanda:

"While the creation of the Hex was a complete accident, Wanda has intentionally kept the whole thing going, and when she's been confronted by numerous people (Monica, Hayward, Vision) about the fact she's hurting the citizens of Westview and that she's effectively taken the town hostage, her response has essentially been to plug her fingers in her ears and go "LALALA CANT HEAR YOU". Going by the monologues in Ep 7, we know that at some level Wanda knows that what she's doing is wrong, but she has chosen to bury those feelings and not assume responsibility for her actions just so she can avoid having to deal with her pain and grief. It will be interesting to see where they take her after this. Will she sink further into these self-delusions and become a straight up villain? Or will she step away from the brink and go on a redemption arc, all the while trying to deal with her depression?"

Hard to say if there are any really clear-cut bad guys in this show. If anything, the three characters who drive the conflict of the show (Wanda, Hayward, Agatha) are varying shades of grey from what we've seen.

It's hard to see how Wanda gets welcomed back to the Avengers at this point. You could definitely say the same thing about other Avengers though.