Dick Grayson/Robin/Nightwing/Batman Appreciation 2023.

[Ascended]

This can be considered as a good or bad thing because on one hand it was a horrible story and should have never lasted as long as it did, but on the other hand it proved Dick's selling power. I don't think many characters would have been able to sell enough books with such an awful story without being cancelled after like 10 issues.

It's a little of both, honestly. And no, I don't think most characters could have held onto sales like Dick did during the Ric saga.

Ric sold consistently poor. At its highest it only sold around 30 and then it fell to all time lows. Attrition slowed because it was falling through its sales floor and they were heavily using tie-in to keep it a float. No one was rewarding DC, shops were just ordering based on the title and the constant tie-ins. It only went on as long as it did because Harras was able to put his people on it and 5g was going reboot the line.

It's been a while since I looked at the sales charts, so maybe I'm remembering wrong. But if memory serves, the title was only selling in the 30-35K range anyway when Ric first began, and didn't see that big a drop for the first....year?...or so.

I don't remember the specifics of the sales chart, but I *do* remember being annoyed that Ric was selling as well as it did, and having discussions here with folks about how we could support Nightwing without buying the title.

[Drako]

03/2005: Nightwing #105 -- 38,958
03/2005: Nightwing #106 -- 38,772
03/2015: Grayson #8 -- 40,859 [41,911]
03/2016: Grayson #18 -- 33,550
03/2017: Nightwing #16 -- 40,289 [40,341]
03/2017: Nightwing #17 -- 39,467 [39,609]
03/2018: Nightwing #40 -- 27,202 [27,242]
03/2018: Nightwing #41 -- 26,951 [27,238]
----------------------------------
10/2018: Nightwing #50 -- 29,450 (+ 24.6%) [31,751]
10/2018: Nightwing #51 -- 35,026 (+ 11.4%) [35,379]
11/2018: Nightwing #52 -- 26,623 (- 24.5%) [26,705]
11/2018: Nightwing #53 -- 26,442 (+ 0.5%) [26,826]
12/2018: Nightwing #54 -- 28,269 (+ 5.4%)
12/2018: Nightwing #55 -- 26,060 (- 7.8%)
01/2019: Nightwing #56 -- 25,044 (- 3.9%)
02/2019: Nightwing #57 -- 26,845 (+ 7.2%)
03/2019: Nightwing #58 -- 25,433 (- 5.3%)
04/2019: Nightwing #59 -- 24,677 (- 3.0%)
05/2019: Nightwing #60 -- 24,233 (- 1.8%)
06/2019: Nightwing #61 -- 22,621 (- 6.7%)
07/2019: Nightwing #62 -- 25,753 (+ 13.8%)
08/2019: Nightwing #63 -- 22,711 (- 11.8%)
09/2019: Nightwing #64 -- 21,736 (- 4.3%)
10/2019: Nightwing #65 -- 20,834 (- 4.1%)
11/2019: Nightwing #66 -- 26,178 (+ 25.7%) (Event that he became a Talon)
12/2019: Nightwing #67 -- 19,766 (- 24.5%)
01/2020: Nightwing #68 -- 19,164 (- 3.0%)
02/2020: Nightwing #69 -- 18,262 (- 4.7%)
03/2020: Nightwing #70 -- 23,248 (+ 27.3%) (Joker War)

Nightwing #61 sold 22,621, that was the lowest amount a Nightwing book has sold, at the time, since March of 2001. And the decline kept going.
It only got a little boost with events. After issue #70, DC became exclusively using Diamond as their North American distributor, so the numbers start become obscure all across the board.

https://yetanothercomicsblog.blogspo...les-march.html

[ZuLuLu]

I think people are misremembering that Ric-era sales were bad because Nightwing sales were already low before the Ric-era began around issue #50.

Taylor is also not credited enough for how quickly he turned around sales. Adams' Flash, PKJ's Action Comics, and Cloonan and Conrad's Wonder Woman were also well received by fans and didn't see a significant sales increase as fast as Nightwing did.

I don't disagree that Taylor's books sometimes lack a bit of a punch and he could do more to give Dick Grayson and Nightwing his own supporting cast that doesn't include the Batfamily and the Titans, however, it is understandable after the Ric era he spent a lot of time rebuilding those ties.

Also, I don't think that the Titans would be getting a new book if it wasn't for Taylor using those characters and getting a fairly positive response after the failure of Titans Academy.

[Vordan]

I think people are misremembering that Ric-era sales were bad because Nightwing sales were already low before the Ric-era began around issue #50.

Taylor is also not credited enough for how quickly he turned around sales. Adams' Flash, PKJ's Action Comics, and Cloonan and Conrad's Wonder Woman were also well received by fans and didn't see a significant sales increase as fast as Nightwing did.

I don't disagree that Taylor's books sometimes lack a bit of a punch and he could do more to give Dick Grayson and Nightwing his own supporting cast that doesn't include the Batfamily and the Titans, however, it is understandable after the Ric era he spent a lot of time rebuilding those ties.

Also, I don't think that the Titans would be getting a new book if it wasn't for Taylor using those characters and getting a fairly positive response after the failure of Titans Academy.

Way things are planned out in comics, DC had to have already decided to put Taylor on Titans, and he simply put the Titans in Nightwing to build up to that. You’re right about sales, I see that as a testament to something we all knew was true: Nightwing is popular. He’s pretty consistently adapted outside of comics, he benefits from both the Titans and the Bat brands popularity. Nightwing only struggles when DC sets out to sabotage him, otherwise he’s a solid seller with a steady fanbase.

[phonogram12]

It wasn't executed that well in my opinion.

Agree to disagree then. I actually thought it was better than every other time they fought.

The problem with Blockbuster isn't that it's not new, it's that Taylor made it pathetic.
Attachment 132110

That was the point. He wanted to bring down a character that had been at the top of the heap in Bludhaven for so long down to the absolute bottom. And it was brilliant.

[ayanestar]

This will never not be funny to me

[AmiMizuno]

What do you all think ? Early designs of 2003 nightwing

IMG_9878.jpg

IMG_9879.jpg

[Ascended]

I think people are misremembering that Ric-era sales were bad because Nightwing sales were already low before the Ric-era began around issue #50.

That's what I'm seeing.

Thanks to Drako for posting the numbers. Look at what we have; issues 40 and 41 (before Ric) are in the mid-high 20K range, which I do believe is already lower than Nightwing's normal. After Ric, they stay in that same ballpark for about a year before dropping into the low 20K's. There's sales attrition of course, but every book sees that, and plenty of them see bigger drops than this did, despite the fact that Ric might have been one of the worst comics on the stands.

Ric was absolutely a low point, but sales had been sliding before that came along (driven by a slew of mediocre runs that weren't awful but were far from good), and didn't seem to accelerate much when Ric started, like you'd see on most other titles. Took a lot of time for the quality to drive people away in droves.

On one hand it's remarkable that Dick held so steady. Truly a testament to his popularity and the loyalty of his fans. On the other hand, a quicker drop would have forced DC to change direction and do some damage control. Didio likely would have left the book in limbo for a bit, but he wouldn't have been able to keep it there for long.

Also, finally got to the LCS and grabbed 104. Not a bad issue, I like how Dick handled his short-term powers. But this was definitely a weak arc for the run. Redondo's absence certainly didn't help. Not bothered by Neron being punked, dude has always been a punk who has lost to worse heroes than Dick and the Titans. Of all the demon Lords, he's easily the weak link and always has been. But I'm glad this arc is over, and we can get back to the core story.

Also got Titans #1, and while it feels too much like a typical NTT reunion for my tastes, it's well done. Taylor did a better job than I feared he would and I enjoyed the issue well enough. But just going by this issue, we're not getting a true successor to the League here. The first issue had them deal with a D-list Superman villain, and it shouldn't require the whole team to handle one giant kaiju. That's the kind of threat I want to see them deal with individually, but as a group it feels like they're punching down. Not impressed, but as far as reunions go this was less terrible than most.

[Godlike13]

Again, it hit its sales floor. Books generally have a level that shops will order based on title recondition alone. Nightwing has been a staple on selves for decades. There was no mountain to plummet from. Especially when every other issue was an event tie in. Which was their band aids.
Ric was suppose to do what Taylor’s run is doing. Not keep its selling at its lows and then fall even lower. They kept Ric around for the same reason they kept RHatOs around, it was steady work for writers they liked. While at the same time DC was planing to damage control their entire line with 5g. There was no forcing DC to do anything on our end. They were just buying time. But do you see how long Tim’s book lasted. Under normal circumstances do you think they were really ok with Nightwing selling like that, or that that is what selling “well” was.

[Frontier]

Agree to disagree then. I actually thought it was better than every other time they fought.

That was the point. He wanted to bring down a character that had been at the top of the heap in Bludhaven for so long down to the absolute bottom. And it was brilliant.

I don't think it was better than their fights in the Seeley run and I thought that had a more satisfying "Dick totally beats Blockbuster" moment. Blockbuster didn't feel like top dog even from the start of the run in my opinion.

What do you all think ? Early designs of 2003 nightwing

IMG_9878.jpg

IMG_9879.jpg

It was cool how he showed up in the dark future episode.

[K7P5V]

It was cool how he showed up in the dark future episode.

If you're referring to "How Long is Forever... ?", then I totally agree.

[Mantis-Ray]

If you're referring to "How Long is Forever... ?", then I totally agree.

Ow the edge, gotta love it

[ayanestar]

Dick should grow out his hair

[Ascended]

Dick should grow out his hair

Always liked him better with long hair.

Probably not that long though. That's a little much.

[marhawkman]

Ow the edge, gotta love it

And then you have the reaction Starfire has where she's like oooh shiny... want.....