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  1. #1636
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    It would depend on when it happened, if it happened at the end of Hickman's run then the Five might not have that ability anymore...

    And Kwannon and Betsy are linked, a lot like Maddy and Jean...

  2. #1637
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    FA is very good.

    Excalibur is going to have to step it up. They are premiering "Kwannon" with a bang, and I say that as someone who despised the retcon that created her from day one. This is going to work.

  3. #1638
    Incredible Member MetalPsyc's Avatar
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    I've read FA #1 and I think it's good. They finally fleshed out Kwannon's background and the tone screams X-Force for me.
    While I like the book I just can't help to think that Marvel just had to go "there" when fleshing out Kwannon.

    Now we know why the Butterfly aura is disappearing from Betsy. Marvel is giving Kwannon the full fledge butterfly treatment, from tattoo, background stories till the butterfly metaphor for the character.
    We've been identifying Betsy as the butterfly for years, and now Marvel is giving it fully to Kwannon.
    Not to mention, she just had to have the precog vision which was exclusive to Betsy (before and after the bodyswap).

    I'm not trying to rain on Kwannon's fans parade, but it's just a pity Marvel had to take some aspects of Betsy's core character in defining Kwannon.
    As for the picking up the name Psylocke, I just don't buy her reasoning. The name "Kwannon" itself seems to be given to her (implicitly saying she has a real japanese name). The background story and the meaning of the name seems very fitting (even it's kinda contradictary) to her character.

  4. #1639
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Can someone to the best of their abilities try to explain the situation between Kwannon and Betsy? Like their connection and back stories with each other. I understand it’s probably a bit convoluted like everything else in comics lol. I have general understanding of it but it’s still confusing.

  5. #1640
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    I read Fallen Angels and... Mmmmmm I'm undecided about how I feel about this Kwannon/Elizabeth situation.

  6. #1641
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    Can someone to the best of their abilities try to explain the situation between Kwannon and Betsy? Like their connection and back stories with each other. I understand it’s probably a bit convoluted like everything else in comics lol. I have general understanding of it but it’s still confusing.
    It is convoluted and Im not sure it will even matter going forward as Kwannon's backstory is being fleshed out and their history might be retconned/streamlined. You may want to read Kwannon's biography at Uncanny X-men.net which is rather short:

    https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/revanche/biography

  7. #1642
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    It is convoluted and Im not sure it will even matter going forward as Kwannon's backstory is being fleshed out and their history might be retconned/streamlined. You may want to read Kwannon's biography at Uncanny X-men.net which is rather short:

    https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/revanche/biography
    Thanks. That was my concern with picking up Fallen angels today. Was worried that I would Be lost since I have a very limited understanding of the Betsy/Kwannon relationship. From what you’re saying it sounds like they are writing this to bring on new readers so I shouldn’t be too lost

  8. #1643
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    Thanks. That was my concern with picking up Fallen angels today. Was worried that I would Be lost since I have a very limited understanding of the Betsy/Kwannon relationship. From what you’re saying it sounds like they are writing this to bring on new readers so I shouldn’t be too lost
    The thing is Kwannon was a retcon and it didnt make sense back then. I think Marvel is fleshing her out now and simplifying things in order to make sense of things for where the characters are now. The basic gist that you need to get is that there was a body swap and Kwannon died in Betsy's body. FF 25 years and Betsy dies but in death creates a new body based on the imagery of her original one from beyond the grave powered by soul energy. Kwannon mysteriously wakes up in the "dead" body and this is where we find them a year later in Dawn of X. Fallen Angels and possibly Excalibur will fill in the gaps but thats the most distilled version of things you need to understand

  9. #1644
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The thing is Kwannon was a retcon and it didnt make sense back then. I think Marvel is fleshing her out now and simplifying things in order to make sense of things for where the characters are now. The basic gist that you need to get is that there was a body swap and Kwannon died in Betsy's body. FF 25 years and Betsy dies but in death creates a new body based on the imagery of her original one from beyond the grave powered by soul energy. Kwannon mysteriously wakes up in the "dead" body and this is where we find them a year later in Dawn of X. Fallen Angels and possibly Excalibur will fill in the gaps but thats the most distilled version of things you need to understand
    Much credit to you for even attempting to make sense of that lol. Thanks. Wife hit up the comic shop and picked up X-men and Fallen angels today so I’ll have to wait til later before reading it. Apparently she disliked X-men but really enjoyed Fallen Angels which is actually what I’ve been hearing a lot of today...

  10. #1645
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Although I disagree with some of their approach. I do think this is the best time to pull the trigger and stick to what they want to establish moving forward.
    I didnt really like 'No Name Psy' attitude and thoughts towards Betsy BUT i'm giving the writers the first arc to delve into it. I hope Tini Howard starts elevating Betsy as much as BEH is elevating "Kwannon".

  11. #1646
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Although I disagree with some of their approach. I do think this is the best time to pull the trigger and stick to what they want to establish moving forward.
    I didnt really like 'No Name Psy' attitude and thoughts towards Betsy BUT i'm giving the writers the first arc to delve into it. I hope Tini Howard starts elevating Betsy as much as BEH is elevating "Kwannon".
    Exactly. I didn't like the subtle "meh here's Braddock" vibe going on. Another thing I didn't like os Kwannon trying to school X and Nate. Gurl you've been dead for decades while this guys were fighting wars.

  12. #1647
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    I can’t blame Kwannon/Psylocke/whoever for having resentment towards Betsy. Her body was taken over and part of her was stuck riding along for years. That’s not Betsy’s fault but it’s what happened.

  13. #1648
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    I can’t blame Kwannon/Psylocke/whoever for having resentment towards Betsy. Her body was taken over and part of her was stuck riding along for years. That’s not Betsy’s fault but it’s what happened.
    That was Kwannon's lover's fault.
    And he did it for Kwannon.
    If anything it was Betsy's body that was stolen, not the opposite.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  14. #1649
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    We all know that, yes. But that doesn’t change the associative guilt Betsy would naturally feel, or the resentment Psylocke naturally feels.

  15. #1650
    Focused Totality Psycwave's Avatar
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    I love the way the two women are being depicted in their separate titles. Psylocke is getting the bang with loads of backstory and her quest is set on revenge. Violent and cathartic which goes with hostility and resentment she has.

    Betsy's is focused on self and family. Re-integrating herself to a life and legacy that she has, for the most part, forgotten or left behind. I'm obviously more prone to Betsy's development because she's the fave but I'm also into the whole slow and steady pace they're giving the women before reconciliation.

    I also just realized that Excalibur #2 is coming out next week! I can't wait to see the journey between her porting out of Avalon and her showing up on Krakoa. I also wonder if Howard is going to delve into how/why the amulet showed up? Iirc I don't think Brian has used or needed the amulet for quite some time. And I wonder if they'll be using Betsy to try and keep "Jamie" under control. Girl has a lot going on with becoming CB, Avalon under siege, Poccy and his machinations, going to have to protect Rogue and the rise of magic mutants. She might lose her sanity.

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