Page 10 of 19 FirstFirst ... 67891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 273
  1. #136
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    You can't mention El Paso without also admitting the Dayton mass shooter associated himself with antifa. CNN: "In addition, a Twitter account that appears to belong to Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters."

    You have just proven my point btw.

    Sadly things will just continue to escalate and people right here in the open condone the actions of an increasingly violent group of thugs because they claim to be fighting against evil. In reality they are just angry mobs and evil begets evil.

    EDIT: To illustrate a bit more comic-focused - I see it as the difference between modern extremist Cyclops and what he was willing to do vs the peaceful dream Xavier had before they shredded his credibility later on. I'm firmly with Xavier's dream here. Violence has no place in a modern society.
    So if violence was no purpose, then Xavier was a hypocrite for having the X-Men fight (WITH VIOLENCE) Magneto. Every time Wolverine stabbed some Purifier, it made Charles a hypocrite. Every time Cyclops blasted a Reaver, it made Charles a hypocrite. Every time Colossus punched a Friend of Humanity, it made Charles a hypocrite.

    Know what would have happened if the X-Men chose pacifism? They would be completely and utterly annihilated.

  2. #137

    Default

    Taylor did a good job incorporating social media into the sentinel's strategies.

    Morrison's U-Men are probably still the best contemporary commentary on contemporary bigotry. Making mutants an actual subculture means they are misunderstood (and feared etc) by the masses but also fetishized and appropriated. The U-Men took that to horrific extents. Would be cool seeing a comic about X-Factor tracking down U-men operations.

  3. #138
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    21,237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Girl Daken View Post
    Taylor did a good job incorporating social media into the sentinel's strategies.

    Morrison's U-Men are probably still the best contemporary commentary on contemporary bigotry. Making mutants an actual subculture means they are misunderstood (and feared etc) by the masses but also fetishized and appropriated. The U-Men took that to horrific extents. Would be cool seeing a comic about X-Factor tracking down U-men operations.
    Considering that there have been exposes done on how social/digital media radicalization, particularly YouTube algorithms that pushed users toward far-right content that veered deeply into racist, nativist, and otherwise bigoted/xenophobic territory, played a role in driving the rise of far-right extremism around the world, X-Men Red was either especially topical, or quite prescient.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #139
    Astonishing Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    2,578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    In any event, at the risk of sounding like I have too many pairs of rose-colored glasses and/or being accused of denying the world's problems, I'll say that I miss when comics like Secret Wars showed more that, despite all the disagreements, shortcomings, and antagonism involved in the humans/mutates' relation with the mutants/X-Men, they're still able to reasonably communicate and cooperate towards a greater good.

    I don't know, some may call it unrealistic, overly-optimistic, or just a flat out joke, and perhaps it can indeed be worded better, but if you ask me, I don't think there's anything wrong with finding and embracing at least a little bit of that hopeful light even in the middle of that destructive darkness, having one's heart in the right place while actively working towards a solution, even if there isn't one close in sight. It just feels more... nuanced and human that way.

    Honestly, I agree with the optimism view. The dark nature of reality should be shown, but an optimistic and peaceful approach should be what X-men comics demonstrate. These are heroes fighting to protect a world that hates and fears them. They should be doing it in a way that's better than what we are and might be able to do ourselves. As the saying goes, violence begets violence. It feels odd to think that violence should be a first option. What does it say when it is? What message is being demonstrated then?
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
    -Spider-man

    “Evil is evil...lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same."
    -Geralt of Rivia

  5. #140
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    2,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Honestly, I agree with the optimism view. The dark nature of reality should be shown, but an optimistic and peaceful approach should be what X-men comics demonstrate. These are heroes fighting to protect a world that hates and fears them. They should be doing it in a way that's better than what we are and might be able to do ourselves. As the saying goes, violence begets violence. It feels odd to think that violence should be a first option. What does it say when it is? What message is being demonstrated then?
    Yeah, and this isn't to say that there isn't a time and place for violence, because of self-defense and all, but I'm sure there's also a time and place for optimism and peace if the modern writers naturally, and preferably interestingly, let it be made that way more often.

    Honestly, despite the "fighting to protect a world that hates and fears them," I really just can't help but feel that the more and more the writers push the humans of Earth-616 into hating the mutants more and more, I then start to question why the X-Men keep on fighting to protect the human inhabitants of Earth if they're making it all the harder for them to be superheroes in. I guess it gets to a point where saying "because it's the right thing to do," just isn't good enough anymore, particularly if 99% of said Earth hates them and has no problem with sending Sentinels after them like it's some religious rapture.

    You saying "a way that's better than what we are and might be able to do ourselves," resonated with me as well, because it reminds me of when Steve Rogers stopped being Captain America after the Watergate Scandal in the 1970s, becoming Nomad after having lost faith in America. I recall something along the lines of him eventually deciding to be Captain America when he realizes that Captain America represents what America can and should be, not the corruption America has in its past and present. I suppose in the same way it's possible for Captain America can convincingly work towards an ideal America, then it can also be possible for the X-Men to convincingly work towards a better world for mutant/human relations despite all the corruption that happens in the world and the naysayers, and that it's very much possible for the world to be in a better, more ideal place, assuming the writers let it be so to the best of their abilities.
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 08-20-2019 at 08:24 AM.

  6. #141
    Mighty Member uebersoldat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    So if violence was no purpose, then Xavier was a hypocrite for having the X-Men fight (WITH VIOLENCE) Magneto. Every time Wolverine stabbed some Purifier, it made Charles a hypocrite. Every time Cyclops blasted a Reaver, it made Charles a hypocrite. Every time Colossus punched a Friend of Humanity, it made Charles a hypocrite.

    Know what would have happened if the X-Men chose pacifism? They would be completely and utterly annihilated.
    "If you keep tearing your guts apart every time you think the world's shafted you, my friend, you'll destroy not only yourself - - but those who love you." -Nightcrawler (All New All Different X-Men #109)

    Wise words from a true X-Man.

  7. #142
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    I'd like more focus on Morlocks. Show more distinction btw how characters like Rogue, Cyclops, and Emma get treated versus the less attractive wealthy ones.

    Don't like ho if you're a mutant you're a victim even if you're rich and good looking. Maybe show how some of the more normal looking mutants get treated like "model minorities" and how less normal looking mutants would rebel against them because of that.

  8. #143
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    "If you keep tearing your guts apart every time you think the world's shafted you, my friend, you'll destroy not only yourself - - but those who love you." -Nightcrawler (All New All Different X-Men #109)

    Wise words from a true X-Man.
    “Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me'.” - George Orwell

    “Pacifism is a virtue indisguishable from cowardice.” - Brent Weeks

    And my personal favorite: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for the good to do nothing in opposition."

    You also failed to address my point:

    If violence is never the solution, then what should the X-Men do when Sentinels are destroying their home and killing their kids?

  9. #144
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    21,237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    I'd like more focus on Morlocks. Show more distinction btw how characters like Rogue, Cyclops, and Emma get treated versus the less attractive wealthy ones.

    Don't like ho if you're a mutant you're a victim even if you're rich and good looking. Maybe show how some of the more normal looking mutants get treated like "model minorities" and how less normal looking mutants would rebel against them because of that.
    That's a good point as well, and could also play into another poster's comment about "respectability politics" vis-ŕ-vis mutants, in the sense that the "normal-looking" or "conventionally attractive" mutants with "useful mutations" resulting in more impressive abilities could unintentionally exhibit a certain sense of elitism in the form of a paternalistic "noblesse oblige" that manifests as (maybe somewhat arrogantly) policing not only their own behavior, but also that of the "less fortunate" mutants in the name of not discomforting or alienating humans too much.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #145
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Some bag...
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    “Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me'.” - George Orwell

    “Pacifism is a virtue indisguishable from cowardice.” - Brent Weeks

    And my personal favorite: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for the good to do nothing in opposition."

    You also failed to address my point:

    If violence is never the solution, then what should the X-Men do when Sentinels are destroying their home and killing their kids?
    They could always just invite the Sentinels to tea time and talk it out.

    Nimrod is a nice fellow underneath all of his genocidal agendas.

  11. #146
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    They could always just invite the Sentinels to tea time and talk it out.

    Nimrod is a nice fellow underneath all of his genocidal agendas.
    Yeah, Reverend Stryker was just trying to debate Kitty when he tried to put a bullet in her brain. X-Men wouldn't let him shoot her. #TypicalIntolerantLeft

    Also, that Darli Dagger Avy hurts me as a Shiki main.

  12. #147
    Incredible Member Mutant X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    “Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me'.” - George Orwell

    “Pacifism is a virtue indisguishable from cowardice.” - Brent Weeks

    And my personal favorite: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for the good to do nothing in opposition."

    You also failed to address my point:

    If violence is never the solution, then what should the X-Men do when Sentinels are destroying their home and killing their kids?
    Real life is not a comic book where you have good guys and bad guys in black and white.
    Everybody see themselves and the group they are part as the good and rightful side.

    We can't use relativism for violence or ignore the means to justify the ends. Terrible things have been done for "good causes'.

  13. #148
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant X View Post
    Real life is not a comic book where you have good guys and bad guys in black and white.
    Everybody see themselves and the group they are part as the good and rightful side.

    We can't use relativism for violence or ignore the means to justify the ends. Terrible things have been done for "good causes'.
    "The bloodiest wars are fought when both sides declare themselves freedom fighters." Yuri Orlov

    The poster I addressed that to said that ANY violence, in comics or real life, is unacceptable. I disagree.

    85 million died in World War 2. But Germany and the Aryan Race don't control the planet. I'll let you decide if the ends were worth it.

  14. #149
    Astonishing Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    2,578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Yeah, and this isn't to say that there isn't a time and place for violence, because of self-defense and all, but I'm sure there's also a time and place for optimism and peace if the modern writers naturally, and preferably interestingly, let it be made that way more often.

    Honestly, despite the "fighting to protect a world that hates and fears them," I really just can't help but feel that the more and more the writers push the humans of Earth-616 into hating the mutants more and more, I then start to question why the X-Men keep on fighting to protect the human inhabitants of Earth if they're making it all the harder for them to be superheroes in. I guess it gets to a point where saying "because it's the right thing to do," just isn't good enough anymore, particularly if 99% of said Earth hates them and has no problem with sending Sentinels after them like it's some religious rapture.

    You saying " a way that's better than what we are and might be able to do ourselves," resonated with me as well, because it reminds me of when Steve Rogers stopped being Captain America after the Watergate Scandal in the 1970s, becoming Nomad after having lost faith in America. I recall something along the lines of him eventually deciding to be Captain America when he realizes that Captain America represents what America can and should be, not the corruption America has in its past and present. I suppose in the same way it's possible for Captain America can convincingly work towards an ideal America, then it can also be possible for the X-Men to convincingly work towards a better world for mutant/human relations despite all the corruption that happens in the world and the naysayers, and that it's very much possible for the world to be in a better, more ideal place, assuming the writers let it be so to the best of their abilities.
    Again, I agree with everything you posted. Adding small points of hope and optimism would be great, especially in presenting the struggle of modern social movements. While things may not be viewed as perfect, adding positive aspects will certainly make the end goals of real life achievement seem that much more obtainable. I remember reading an article viewing comics as "modern mythology". That might be a bit too generous of a description but I think that emphasizes the point that comics should offer lessons even if exaggerated. The X-men could represent the best that social movements could be and strive for. It may be viewed as too idealistic, but I think it would be better than a continuously hopeless attempt at better human/mutant relations.
    Last edited by TheDeadSpace; 08-19-2019 at 06:05 PM.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
    -Spider-man

    “Evil is evil...lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same."
    -Geralt of Rivia

  15. #150
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Again, I agree with everything you posted. Adding small points of hope and optimism would be great, especially in presenting the struggle of modern social movements. While things may not be viewed as perfect, adding positive aspects will certainly make the end goals of real life achievement seem that much more obtainable. I remember reading an article viewing comics as "modern mythology". That might be a bit too generous but I think that emphasizes the point that comics should present lessons even if exaggerated. The X-men could represent the best that social movements could be and strive for.
    While I like the idea in theory, the issue is that the X-Men are a perpetually ongoing series. They cannot gain equality, or the series wouldn't need to exist. So it hurts knowing that whatever positive steps are made will be undone by the next writer setting up mutantkind on the brink of annihilation to tell their story.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •