Are all these Crises and REBIRTHS necessary

[Stanlos]

Hi, DC Fans!

Perusing the Superman and Wonder Woman boards I noted a lot of discussion of continuity and resets and Crises. Everytime I read of these, my mind goes to the term "HYPERTIME". I recall it from an issue of SUPERBOY that began with Big Barda and the New Gods and a Superboy (but not THE Superboy) in a medical situation. The Trinity got involved later and the duplicate Superboy had implications of this Hypertime concept.

When Hypertime was explained in the issue it seemed to address any and really all continuity questions and effectively brought back the Multiverse.

But . . .

Since that time we have had all these Crises, Convergences, Zero Hours, and Rebirths.

And from the looks of things now we have yet another one looming. This time with Watchmen stuff involved.

My question is: what is the rationale for these and what were they trying to do that Hypertime did not achieve?

[Lee Stone]

Hi, DC Fans!

Perusing the Superman and Wonder Woman boards I noted a lot of discussion of continuity and resets and Crises. Everytime I read of these, my mind goes to the term "HYPERTIME". I recall it from an issue of SUPERBOY that began with Big Barda and the New Gods and a Superboy (but not THE Superboy) in a medical situation. The Trinity got involved later and the duplicate Superboy had implications of this Hypertime concept.

When Hypertime was explained in the issue it seemed to address any and really all continuity questions and effectively brought back the Multiverse.

But . . .

Since that time we have had all these Crises, Convergences, Zero Hours, and Rebirths.

And from the looks of things now we have yet another one looming. This time with Watchmen stuff involved.

My question is: what is the rationale for these and what were they trying to do that Hypertime did not achieve?

Long story short: each time, TPTB had a 'better idea'.

[MajorHoy]

"Crisis" as part of a title dates back to the 1960s and many of the annual JLA/JSA team-ups, frequently involving additional parallel Earths. So when 1985 came along and DC wanted a big, attention-getting shake-up, calling that Crisis on Infinite Earths did make a whole lot of sense.
And, by the way, that event did set a high bar for the idea of "earth-shattering" stories where there was NO GUARANTEE as to who would survive and who wouldn't. If you weren't around and reading comic books back then as each issue was released, there's really no way to convey how different this was from the "big stories" (which weren't that big in comparison) that may have come before. This became the STANDARD as to what future "EVENTS" would have to compete with.

[GlennSimpson]

Because when they have these events, people get excited and buy the series where it happens, and the tie-ins, and the relaunched series that come out of it.

It's not just about fixing continuity, it's about increasing sales.

[Lee Stone]

Because when they have these events, people get excited and buy the series where it happens, and the tie-ins, and the relaunched series that come out of it.

It's not just about fixing continuity, it's about increasing sales.

Although... I do admit that sometimes it feels like a contractor building a house and each time they get to the second floor they change ideas on the first floor, bulldoze it and start over.

Maybe one day, we'll get to a second floor again.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Rebirth was necessary because DC royally screwed up with the New 52. Im fact, Rebirth hasn't even done enough to fix the problems caused by the New 52.

[MykeHavoc]

If DC had a short list of words describing themselves, Crisis makes the cut. It's written in its DNA.

[MajorHoy]

Rebirth was necessary because DC royally screwed up with the New 52. Im fact, Rebirth hasn't even done enough to fix the problems caused by the New 52.

My problem is that before the New52, while DC did have some good stuff, there was way too much dead and dying crap still being published, some of it weighed down by drastic mistakes like "Amazons Attack!" and such.

They tried to give everything a fresh start with the New52, but they still held on to some things and were vague as to what else still was or wasn't part of the nebulous, poorly defined "five year" window they wanted to skip over.

Now, once sales start slacking off again, they want to go and bring back more of the crap that was weighing them down and was causing them to lose readers in the first place? WTF?!?

[GlennSimpson]

Although... I do admit that sometimes it feels like a contractor building a house and each time they get to the second floor they change ideas on the first floor, bulldoze it and start over.

Maybe one day, we'll get to a second floor again.

Maybe the problem is nobody in this neighborhood really wants to live in a two-story house.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

My problem is that before the New52, while DC did have some good stuff, there was way too much dead and dying crap still being published, some of it weighed down by drastic mistakes like "Amazons Attack!" and such.

They tried to give everything a fresh start with the New52, but they still held on to some things and were vague as to what else still was or wasn't part of the nebulous, poorly defined "five year" window they wanted to skip over.

Now, once sales start slacking off again, they want to go and bring back more of the crap that was weighing them down and was causing them to lose readers in the first place? WTF?!?

Continuity doesn't weigh down the company. Rebirth pretty much proves that all that's ever been needed was an infusion of good creative teams who can tell good stories. The New 52 never even came close to fixing the problems that existed before the New 52 and in fact exacerbated them. The quality of the Superman books, for example, never really benefitted from the New 52 and were still pretty crap. But what made matters worse was that the Superman starring in them no longer felt like the classic Superman fans had known and loved over the years. His marriage to Lois had been erased, his suit looked like something that came out of Transformers, his personality was very different, several of the classic arcs that had defined the Superman mythology were no longer in canon, etc.

The Superman books from before Flashpoint may not have been that good, but at least he still felt like Superman. He was still the same Superman that fans had been with through the Death and Return Saga, For the Man Who Has Everything, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way, Public Enemies, Last Son, Our Worlds at War, etc.

So, no, the old DC Universe itself was never what was weighing the company down. What was weighing the company down was the horrible editorial management under Didio, a regime that alienated several well-known creators like Rucka and Waid, and just bad writing. Those problems only became more prominent with the New 52, as evidenced by the slew of well-publicized creative fall-outs.

[Netherman14]

Continuity doesn't weigh down the company. Rebirth pretty much proves that all that's ever been needed was an infusion of good creative teams who can tell good stories. The New 52 never even came close to fixing the problems that existed before the New 52 and in fact exacerbated them. The quality of the Superman books, for example, never really benefitted from the New 52 and were still pretty crap. But what made matters worse was that the Superman starring in them no longer felt like the classic Superman fans had known and loved over the years. His marriage to Lois had been erased, his suit looked like something that came out of Transformers, his personality was very different, several of the classic arcs that had defined the Superman mythology were no longer in canon, etc.

So, no, the old DC Universe was never what was weighing the company down. What was weighing the company down was the horrible editorial management under Didio, a regime that alienated several well-known creators like Rucka and Waid, and just bad writing. Those problems only became more prominent with the New 52, as evidenced by the slew of well-publicized creative fall-outs.

That's a load of bullshit and you know it, Nu52 Superman wasn't that different in terms of personality. even before he mellowed down, when he still had that cocky and brash social crusader outlook.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That's a load of bullshit and you know it, Nu52 Superman wasn't that different in terms of personality. even before he mellowed down, when he still had that cocky and brash social crusader outlook.

Before Flashpoint, Superman wouldn't have attacked Green Lantern and Batman on sight before even trying to talk to them once they landed in Metropolis. After Flashpoint, he was apparently a guy who did exactly that.

[MajorHoy]

. . . So, no, the old DC Universe was never what was weighing the company down. What was weighing the company down was the horrible editorial management under Didio, a regime that alienated several well-known creators like Rucka and Waid, and just bad writing. Those problems only became more prominent with the New 52, as evidenced by the slew of well-publicized creative fall-outs.

What DC SHOULD HAVE DONE with the New 52 was a sort-of Silver Age 2.0. Started all over and reimagined EVERYTHING so that there was no previous DC comic book history on the New 52 world. They could maybe hold on to secret identities for some big characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and maybe the main Green Lantern (Hal), but otherwise felt free to do something different with characters like Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow, etc.

THEN, after about a year or so, re-introduce the pre-Flashpoint DC world on another Earth in the Multiverse so that those fans would know it was still alive and well.

[MajorHoy]

Before Flashpoint, Superman wouldn't have attacked Green Lantern and Batman on sight before even trying to talk to them once they landed in Metropolis. After Flashpoint, he was apparently a guy who did exactly that.

Remember the circumstances back then . . . Darkseid had started attacking the Earth, and did Superman know anything about Green Lantern and Batman? Better to attack, subdue, and contain any potential, unknown threats until you know their stories so they can't take advantage of you and your world when you weren't expecting it.

[Netherman14]

Before Flashpoint, Superman wouldn't have attacked Green Lantern and Batman on sight before even trying to talk to them once they landed in Metropolis. After Flashpoint, he was apparently a guy who did exactly that.

GA Superman would have done the exact same, hell he did. abit with Superdad instead of Batman and Green Lantern. and how do you not know if he didn't attack GA Alan Scott as well when they first met each other.