Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation

[PrezValentine]

Despite how it looks, and it looks bad I'll grant you, this is really a non-event. Even Candy's reaction makes it pretty clear that no one see's as much more than teasing their SO's.

On a totally separate note, you have to laugh at the ridiculousness of Jott. They both lost their virginity to each other, but not at the same time...

Yeah, I always saw this s completely irrelevant. It just rubbed me the wrong way first time I saw it years ago lol

[JeisonWolf]

There's two seperate things going on there.

Mastermind was manipulating Jean through illusions. He appeared as various people slowly tapping into her inner turmoil about many things, including Scott's supposed death in UXM 113, and Jean's realization of her ongoing changes which will culminate in her becoming DP. Along with these changes, we see some differences in Jean's behavior in general. She's more willing to use her powers (case in point, putting the whammy on Kitty's parents) and is dressing and behaving more provocatively by the time the panel from UXM 132 get's posted.

The most ironic thing about this is that just a few pages later Scott and Jean are sharing their iconic tryst on the butte. I really think what we're seeing her is a Jean that's embraced her sexuality, due to both the PF influence as well as her, well call it "dalliance" with Mastermind in Greece.

I understand what you say, now that you mention it I was surprised to see Jean with a big neckline, but although Jean is changing I would expect some reaction from Scott, even if it is Warren, or maybe Jean has or had the habit of kissing his friends? I don't thing so, besides Warren's girlfriend was the only one who acted in relation to it. When the Mastermind kiss only saw Scott think that she had changed and do nothing, as if he really didn't care, as I said I have to read the story well to understand what happens but still I find it weird.

[Abbz_A]

Despite how it looks, and it looks bad I'll grant you, this is really a non-event. Even Candy's reaction makes it pretty clear that no one see's as much more than teasing their SO's.

On a totally separate note, you have to laugh at the ridiculousness of Jott. They both lost their virginity to each other, but not at the same time...

Hol’ up ... what?

[SpiderClops]

Hol’ up ... what?

Scott lost his virginity on the butte. But that was technically phoenix. Then Jean lost hers to Scott in X-Factor.

[Abbz_A]

Scott lost his virginity on the butte. But that was technically phoenix. Then Jean lost hers to Scott in X-Factor.

Oh like that haha ok

Weren’t they dating before she dies death? Maybe they lost it then.

[JeisonWolf]

Scott lost his virginity on the butte. But that was technically phoenix. Then Jean lost hers to Scott in X-Factor.

I like that, it's one of my favorite Jott's drama.

[Abbz_A]

I Love This! <33 Redd n Slim arc is my fav part of Jott history.

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[phoenixzero23]

I Love This! <33 Redd n Slim arc is my fav part of Jott history.

F10F9BBC-ADD3-4BDA-AFCE-961270ACE4E7.jpg

I love it!
it's surprising how some people only remember the bad end quesada/morrison gave to the relationship but not the good stuff.
I love that part of the relationship and characters, it was so beautiful and while convoluted it was unique. i don't think they can have anything even close to that with other people, or reach half as far.
It's sad it's usually ignored or that some people don't even remember the relationship went that far or had an story so important for both of the characters lives.

[phoenixzero23]

edit: wrong thread

[Abbz_A]

I love it!
it's surprising how some people only remember the bad end quesada/morrison gave to the relationship but not the good stuff.
I love that part of the relationship and characters, it was so beautiful and while convoluted it was unique. i don't think they can have anything even close to that with other people, or reach half as far.
It's sad it's usually ignored or that some people don't even remember the relationship went that far or had an story so important for both of the characters lives.

U r so right!

It hurts me so much when writers think drama, pain and separation will bring in sales n new readers or make better stories
I would take storylines like Cyclops and Phoenix Adventures/DPS over any other storyline from X-Men.

Why is it so hard for writers to get it right?

[FUBAR007]

I understand what you say, now that you mention it I was surprised to see Jean with a big neckline, but although Jean is changing I would expect some reaction from Scott, even if it is Warren, or maybe Jean has or had the habit of kissing his friends? I don't thing so, besides Warren's girlfriend was the only one who acted in relation to it. When the Mastermind kiss only saw Scott think that she had changed and do nothing, as if he really didn't care, as I said I have to read the story well to understand what happens but still I find it weird.

Claremont wrote that scene, and he is very libertine about sexuality in his work. Warren kissing Jean on the lips in front of Scott is actually pretty mild for him. In CC's mind, that was a perfectly normal, friendly way for Warren to say hello to Jean.

[FUBAR007]

U r so right!

It hurts me so much when writers think drama, pain and separation will bring in sales n new readers or make better stories
I would take storylines like Cyclops and Phoenix Adventures/DPS over any other storyline from X-Men.

Why is it so hard for writers to get it right?

They, and Marvel editorial, see Jott as something to subvert and disrupt, not build on. Part of it's to gin up drama. Part of it's a (IMO) myopic adherence to the genre convention of not letting major characters age past their early 30s--Scott and Jean "can't" age so there's no point in playing out their marriage any further.

Beyond that, I think it also has to do with superhero comics shifting from being mainstream, mass market entertainment (up through the mid-90s or so) to being the hyper-niche entertainment they are today.* The tastes of today's generation of comics writers, particularly at Marvel, seem to be more post-modern and hipster-y compared to their predecessors 20+ years ago (many of whom are now at DC). To current writers, Jott is a very vanilla, mainstream type of love story and so their instinct is to deconstruct it, not develop it. To put it another way, they see Jott as Mainstream Top 40 when what they want to play is Indie Rock.

*To be clear: I'm talking about superhero comics, not superhero fiction in general which is obviously more popular than it's ever been.

[lancer]

Claremont wrote that scene, and he is very libertine about sexuality in his work. Warren kissing Jean on the lips in front of Scott is actually pretty mild for him. In CC's mind, that was a perfectly normal, friendly way for Warren to say hello to Jean.

Sort of how I interpreted it. Personally, I found a kiss like that a bit disconcerting. However, by Claremont's sensibilities, it apparently wasn't inappropriate. The proof is the real lack of reaction from the others. It's pretty clear that Candy is not seriously bothered by it.

[lancer]

They, and Marvel editorial, see Jott as something to subvert and disrupt, not build on. Part of it's to gin up drama. Part of it's a (IMO) myopic adherence to the genre convention of not letting major characters age past their early 30s--Scott and Jean "can't" age so there's no point in playing out their marriage any further.

Beyond that, I think it also has to do with superhero comics shifting from being mainstream, mass market entertainment (up through the mid-90s or so) to being the hyper-niche entertainment they are today.* The tastes of today's generation of comics writers, particularly at Marvel, seem to be more post-modern and hipster-y compared to their predecessors 20+ years ago (many of whom are now at DC). To current writers, Jott is a very vanilla, mainstream type of love story and so their instinct is to deconstruct it, not develop it. To put it another way, they see Jott as Mainstream Top 40 when what they want to play is Indie Rock.

*To be clear: I'm talking about superhero comics, not superhero fiction in general which is obviously more popular than it's ever been.

While I agree that might be the current creator view on Jott, not ageing beyond a certain point didn't stop Reed and Sue. Franklin is going on 50 years old by now. Last I read FF, no way he was 10. He aged and then pretty much stopped. Peter and MJ got into their 20s and then pretty much stopped, and that marriage lasted 20 years. I think Jean and Scott could have stayed married in the books without ageing them anywhere near real time. A creator didn't think they worked anymore and perhaps the current lot wants drama. Again, that is not just Marvel thinking. It's a longstanding serial fiction dilemma about permanently hooking up, as in marrying, love interests.

[Legaldrugdealer]

A just finished commission by Jan Duursema