Doctor Who IV - Everything Whovian - Would you like a jelly baby?

[jbmasta]

Yes, much as how the 5th Doctor wouldn't remember meeting the 10th in Time Crash. And how the 10th, 11th and War Doctors don't remember their meeting.
However, Missy did remember SOME things - such as a crazy woman shoving her past self against a wall and demanding he always carried a spare dematerialisation circuit.

Honestly, being stabbed by and then shooting one own future self would be more memorable than that.

Some stories have used the idea that what happens to the youngest version of the Doctor is remembered by later versions as it happens to the youngest version. This was in cauterised time (where there were two Sixth Doctors and two Mels), so no idea if it's applicable in other multi-Doctor encounters. There's a discussion between the Fifth Doctor and the Seventh Doctor at the end of the audio adaptation of the novel Cold Fusion on the subject, where they list the times the memory loss has been in play and when it hasn't. Personally I find it best to decide what applies for the individual situation rather than a consistent answer for everytime multiple versions of the same Time Lord meet.

[Carabas]

It's an old narrative trap, where the hero has awesome powers/tech ... but if he can use them all the time, how can be ever be in any real danger? A Dalek? I'll just hide in the TARDIS until it goes away. The ship I'm on is exploding? Into the TARDIS, no problem.

And thisis precisely why the TARDIS-summoning trick from Fathersday you suggested should have been used, should never ever be used again. And the writers seem to get that because it has never been used again.

Yes, much as how the 5th Doctor wouldn't remember meeting the 10th in Time Crash. And how the 10th, 11th and War Doctors don't remember their meeting.

I got the impression that the most recent version of multiple Doctor encounters do remember.
I mean, how else would 11 know that Gallifrey had been saved?

[Matt]

The only thing reasonable from Father's Day TARDIS summoning is that it seemed to take a fair amount of time for the TARDIS to fully appear. It certainly seemed to be more of a case of recreating the exterior shell rather than a normal materialisation.
I must admit, I pulled that example out quickly. Any way to get to the TARDIS would have worked, really.

The Doctor probably remembers the event but gets really hazy on the details. Much like Missy knew a limited number of things about meeting her own past self.

[jbmasta]

I got the impression that the most recent version of multiple Doctor encounters do remember.
I mean, how else would 11 know that Gallifrey had been saved?

My theory is that the amnesia was deliberately included as a safety feature, to prevent earlier incarnation deliberately bring about the series of events leading to the multi-incarnation interaction, avoiding further complicating an already timey-wimey situation.

It also ties into how what is observed of one's personal future then becomes set in stone, and must happen regardless of whether its good or bad (Angels Take Manhattan). If the War Doctor remembered Gallifrey being saved, then there's no guilt in Nine, Ten and Eleven (which is the reason they forgot about him), which he saw them display, therefore remembering the actual fate of Gallifrey would screw with his future timeline. Additionally there's that old chestnut of the predestination or self-fulfilling paradox, bringing about an occurrence you're trying to prevent. Using knowledge of the future to negate it. And seeing how your future self turns out is a big dollop of future knowledge.

[Loki]

My theory is that the amnesia was deliberately included as a safety feature, to prevent earlier incarnation deliberately bring about the series of events leading to the multi-incarnation interaction, avoiding further complicating an already timey-wimey situation.

It also ties into how what is observed of one's personal future then becomes set in stone, and must happen regardless of whether its good or bad (Angels Take Manhattan). If the War Doctor remembered Gallifrey being saved, then there's no guilt in Nine, Ten and Eleven (which is the reason they forgot about him), which he saw them display, therefore remembering the actual fate of Gallifrey would screw with his future timeline. Additionally there's that old chestnut of the predestination or self-fulfilling paradox, bringing about an occurrence you're trying to prevent. Using knowledge of the future to negate it. And seeing how your future self turns out is a big dollop of future knowledge.

One of the Doctor Who Yearbooks has the fourth Doctor arrive on a submarine being attacked by Sea Devils. He finds the situation somewhat familiar, and finally realises why when he responds to a radio message from the surface and discovers that it is the third Doctor (with UNIT) calling. He recalls that he never found out the identity of the person on the sub whose assistance proved so vital, but he's got an additional problem now - because he does remember the adventure and their interaction, he not only has to help save the day, but must say and do exactly what the "guy on the sub" did last time round. Recalling the adventure is actually a disadvantage, because he can't act independently or improvise - any deviation from the previous time around could muck up the timelines.

[Jokerz79]

One of the Doctor Who Yearbooks has the fourth Doctor arrive on a submarine being attacked by Sea Devils. He finds the situation somewhat familiar, and finally realises why when he responds to a radio message from the surface and discovers that it is the third Doctor (with UNIT) calling. He recalls that he never found out the identity of the person on the sub whose assistance proved so vital, but he's got an additional problem now-because he does remember the adventure and their interaction, he not only has to help save the day, but must say and do exactly what the "guy on the sub" did last time round. Recalling the adventure is actually a disadvantage, because he can't act independently or improvise - any deviation from the previous time around could muck up the timelines.

Speaking of Timelines I have a theory in Enemy of the World the 2nd Doctor is in 2018 Australia and the world is under a world government with his double Salamander coming to power. Apparently some ecological event caused a world famine. Now in Inferno the 3rd Doctor ends up in an Parallel world where the drilling project unit is overlooking in his world is reaching it's final goal and ends up causing an ecological disaster. I wonder if Inferno caused the world the 2nd Doctor saw but his 3rd incarceration stopped it from happening without knowing. It brings up an interesting idea if the people the Doctor saved yesterday are erased by time tomorrow due to his actions today.

[Jim Kelly]

I think all Time Lords have suicidal tendencies. So the Master has a desire for death--real and true, not ever coming back. The Gallifreyans are in love with death, because staying dead and never coming back is so rare. That better explains why the Doctor does things that seem stupid on the face of it--he doesn't really want to go on living so he's reckless and deliberately gets himself into situations that he should never survive.

Of course, he gets many of his companions into difficult situations, as well. But by nature, I don't think Gallifreyans care about people. The only reason that the Doctor does is because his companions get under his skin and start to make him want to care about them. But when he first meets them, he usually pushes them away. He doesn't like to have those feelings because they get in the way of his death-drive.

[Miles To Go]

Heard over on BBC Radio today that

spoilers:

Jenna Coleman is in the Christmas special as Clara

end of spoilers

[Carabas]

Heard over on BBC Radio today that

spoilers:

Jenna Coleman is in the Christmas special as Clara

end of spoilers

Doesn't say much. She was in this episod too.

[Qwerty]

Doesn't say much. She was in this episod too.

She was? Also she is worse than Rose now.

[Carabas]

She was? Also she is worse than Rose now.

All Companions were in it.

[Qwerty]

All Companions were in it.

I must have blocked that scene out.

[jbmasta]

One of the Doctor Who Yearbooks has the fourth Doctor arrive on a submarine being attacked by Sea Devils. He finds the situation somewhat familiar, and finally realises why when he responds to a radio message from the surface and discovers that it is the third Doctor (with UNIT) calling. He recalls that he never found out the identity of the person on the sub whose assistance proved so vital, but he's got an additional problem now - because he does remember the adventure and their interaction, he not only has to help save the day, but must say and do exactly what the "guy on the sub" did last time round. Recalling the adventure is actually a disadvantage, because he can't act independently or improvise - any deviation from the previous time around could muck up the timelines.

Some of the Big Finish stories have involved the Doctor or his companions needing to stick to the script or risk events unravelling. In one case the companion had moral doubts in letting people die because that's how they'd seen it happen the first time around.

[Tugger]

The last time I enjoyed anything DW related was ironically An Adventure in Space and Time, which was excellent. Haven't been a fan of Capaldi's Doctor.
From the little I have seen of this series, Pearl Mackie has been really good.
I watched the last 20 mins of the final episode but it was completely nonsensical.
Don't really care who the next Doctor is. I'm done with it now.
Personally, the think the Beeb should've had the balls to kill it off when Matt Smith left, instead of using the really lame plot device of a whole new cycle of regenerations.

[Matt]

I watched the last 20 mins of the final episode but it was completely nonsensical.

Those two things are probably related.