Rape in the Avengers and Avengers #200

[Carabas]

And he accepted this, took full responsibility and apologised.

Well, all right then.

[Anthony Shaw]

Full disclosure, I'm actually a big fan of Englehart. I disagree with your interpretation of the FF. I think the person who looked bad there was Ben, not Crystal. I thought Crystal was as uncomfortable with the whole situation as Johnny.

My memories back then were: Byrne made me not like Johnny for marrying Alicia, and Englehart made me not like Ben for bringing in Crystal to mess with Johnny.

It was the first time I found myself disliking the two most fun characters of the FF.

While on the X-side, you had the Scott/Maddie/Jean thing.

As a kid, I thought Marvel went too far with the soap opera.

[CentralPower]

In comics? Perhaps. But Bobbi was an Avenger at the time, supposed to be one of the best of the best, and uphold a certain standard.

These days, killing is what, a two issue subplot?

Mockingbird is a costumed vigilante to begin with. In that case, she was in a time and place that was outside the laws that she normally operated above and outside of.

And, how is there virtue in mercy for monsters? (That canard has always been a peeve of mine.)

so that retcon saves Wanda. but Clint is still made out to be a real creeper. why would Doctor Doom have left a Wanda sexbot, there?

I think we know why Doctor Doom would have a Wanda sex bot on hand. We may not want to think about it. But, we know.

[Punisher007]

With the old backstory, even if you don't agree with Bobbi's actions, you can at least understand them and see why she got to that point. It was a believable. The retcon makes her feel, so much more questionable in that regard.

As for the Wanda-bot, I'm not sure that Doom intended it to be a "sex-bot" specifically. That, doesn't really seem like his style imo.

[Carabas]

As for the Wanda-bot, I'm not sure that Doom intended it to be a "sex-bot" specifically. That, doesn't really seem like his style imo.

It does seem like an incredible amount of extra effort in design and programming and stuff for functionality he's not interested in.

[Punisher007]

He's Doom, I wonder if he builds advanced tech, just because he gets bored sometimes?

[Drops Of Venus]

The more interesting one is the Hulk one, because you have a real anti-rape story here, something people seem to question Shooter about, where he uses a real life story a friend experienced and a super hero that one would not think could be a victim. As far as this story is concerned Bruce Banner could be gay or a woman, and the story still happens. The story is that the fear is so great that he cannot transform into the Hulk. Sure, it falls apart when examined by any Hulk fan, but to a casual reader this is a powerful story. About how bad rape is and if anyone spent more than a second thinking about it beyond whatever article they read telling them how bad this story was, they would see this actually speaks up for women who are often questioned about why they don't fight back or speak up.

I don't think you quite understand why that Hulk story was so problematic. It could've been a great story with a great message to rape survivors, but it was completely overshadowed by the reality of the gay representation of the time: standard comics were not allowed to have openly gay characters in them, and Shooter KNEW THIS. Even if by any chance he disagreed with that rule, he knew it and he deliberately CHOSE to use the ONE story he knew could get away with some of the CCA guidelines to portray openly gay people, for the very first and only time during three fucking decades of Marvel Comics (more than that if we're counting Timely), in a terrible, awful manner that just reinforced so many stigmas and prejudices from that time. And he didn't do ANYTHING to make up for that. He didn't take the opportunity of being able to publish more mature oriented magazines like that Hulk one to even the balance and show that there was more to openly gay people in the MU than being rapists. If that particular story went down in history as it did, Shooter is the only one to blame.

[Iron Maiden]

He's Doom, I wonder if he builds advanced tech, just because he gets bored sometimes?

It's a little known fact that the "special" high-end Doombots are a prime export for Latveria, with many models to select from in an online catalog only available to the super rich. Rumor is one of them is married to a certain world leader, grifter and former reality show star.

[Michael Watkins]

He's Doom, I wonder if he builds advanced tech, just because he gets bored sometimes?

I think it's grounds for a lawsuit; is all I'm saying. imagine if there was a sexbot of you running around; ruining your good name.

[Michael Watkins]

It does seem like an incredible amount of extra effort in design and programming and stuff for functionality he's not interested in.

he's probably interested. she has stuff in common with his mother.

[Michael Watkins]

Doom was planning to marry Wanda but he knew that Earth's heroes would be looking for her. So he creates a Wanda-Bot and places it in Transia for the heroes to find. They think they have found her while he marries the real Wanda and no-one will be the wiser until it's too late.

...but the Young Avengers knew that it was a Doombot; leading them to Doom. why bother to create clues to her whereabouts when he could just secret her away at his castle? it's not like they'd look for her at Doom's house.

[Iron Maiden]

...but the Young Avengers knew that it was a Doombot; leading them to Doom. why bother to create clues to her whereabouts when he could just secret her away at his castle? it's not like they'd look for her at Doom's house.

But Clint found her (or the Doombot) back in New Avengers #23 (vol 1). Beast also encountered her but forgot which comic. So that kept them off the scent for a while so to speak. No one tried to take her back into custody like before when she was with Doctor Strange for while. Then the game would have been up.

I think Tom B. tried to back off on just how long ago the Doombot was placed in Transia and when Wanda took up residence in Castle Doom. IIRC, Layla Miller was there at the same time, at least according to PAD's X-Factor. It was like a sorority house. I wonder if they bumped into in the kitchen while looking for a cold beer.

[Drops Of Venus]

...but the Young Avengers knew that it was a Doombot; leading them to Doom. why bother to create clues to her whereabouts when he could just secret her away at his castle? it's not like they'd look for her at Doom's house.

One could argue he wasn't expecting anyone to find out it was a Doombot. They only did because of a freak accident (Quicksilver impaled the poor robot). Also, it's comics. The writer just needed a convenient plot point to forward the story in some way.

[Michael Watkins]

But Clint found her (or the Doombot) back in New Avengers #23 (vol 1).

Clint was disoriented; having seemingly just returned to existence. and he wasn't looking for Wanda to reveal her whereabouts to the world. maybe if he had, they would have discovered the nature of the doombot, earlier.

Beast also encountered her but forgot which comic.

yeah but it was an extremely brief encounter (one that occurred right around the time that he sought out Doom). this robot somehow used magic to warp reality around Beast/send him away. because it wasn't a robot. and this was a stupid retcon.

[Mike_Murdock]

And he accepted this, took full responsibility and apologised.

I think it's charitable to say he took full responsibility, although he did accept the buck stopped with him and did apologize.