Kathleen Kennedy: Legitimate Gripes or Blistering Mysogyny?

[Sacred Knight]

Both. There's very cognizant, understandable criticisms of the films out there. Some of which I agree with, many of which I don't agree with but still respect as intelligent critical analysis. On the other hand there is plenty of hate just based on the fact the heroine is a woman and there's more ethnicity to the cast now. And unfortunately there's a loudness factor that comes with the latter.

[ClanAskani]

JJ was an Exec Producer on The last Jedi, he also wrote an outline to the entire trilogy, according to Daisy Ridley in interview with Le Magazine Geek.

and Abrams is now writing 2 of the 3 movies anyway it would seem that it cost them more not to have a writer outline (rough draft) the entire trilogy.

There wasn't an outline according to Rian Johnson: "The first thing that made me think this could be a great experience was that it wouldn't be written by committee. It's also not like there's a white board with the whole story arc laid out. Much to my surprise, it was, 'Here's a script for Episode VII, and you can watch some dailies, because they were shooting Episode VII at the time, and let's talk about where this is going next.' It was very open. It ended up feeling in some strange way, very similar as to when I had written my other films in that there was a lot of space and freedom. We were always carrying the characters forward from the first movie, and we're starting off from the events of the first movie, and there's a trajectory to it so it made sense they would go in this direction next. But in that context, it felt like I was able to find the movie that I cared about. It was a really nice writing experience."

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/rian-jo...character-arcs


JJ was brought in after Michael Arndt left and I get the impression he tossed out everything the Writers' Room decided. My guess is that the planning was deciding on an endgame - how do they turn the Star Wars universe into a franchise of movies with the way ROTJ ended? A new villain needs to be introduced, the galaxy has to be at war again, etc. The Sequel Trilogy's ultimate goal is to introduce a new status quo that can be used to launch dozens of new movies.

But this is very much how tv shows are written. A show like Lost doesn't decide on the whole plot. They do a pilot then bring in writers who have new ideas. They introduce a mysterious new character and don't actually know where they are going with it. The difference is that tv shows do actually use audience reaction to decide where to go, whereas Rian Johnson was reading a script and writing The Last Jedi without knowing how fans reacted.

Grace Randolph made an excellent point in one of her recent videos that JJ is classic network tv show producer whereas fans know expect Netflix style shows with considerable pre-planning and clues hinting at where the plot and characters are going next.

I remember before Rogue One came out all the hype and speculation that Felicity Jones' character would turn out to be Rey's mother. And that fits into the idea that all of these movies were fitting into a larger story, but there wasn't anyone at Lucasfilm even considering trying to do that. And writer/directors like Rian Johnson want the freedom to do whatever they want without a committee telling them what to do. And if there was someone in that role at Lucasfilm, they would be getting an exec prod credit on every film. While that's sounds good, if they hired someone like Simon Kinberg, it would prevent him from doing four or five movies a year for multiple studios.

[Pinsir]

I wonder who some fans would rather have in charge? Lucas is of course an obvious answer, but I seriously doubt he'd be willing to come back, especially since his retirement allowed him to remarry and-apart from showing up to film premieres-seems to be comfortable away from the spotlight (I'm not sure he really wanted to be in the spotlight in the first place, he's always striked me as a sort of shy person in most interviews).

Or, in his own words (From an NYT interview around the time he retired):"Why would I make any more, when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?"

Wonder if he warned Kathleen what she was getting into...

It was perfectly acceptable for years to equivocate the Prequels with rape so, yeah, its not like the Star Wars fanbase is coming off from a period of good behavior. There was even a movie made that about the fan bases frustration called the People v George Lucas, which used the song, unabashedly, called "George Lucas Raped My Childhood." I think if anything, Kathleen Kennedy was naive in thinking she could create any sort of product that could appease Star Wars fans.

Also, I don't know if any of you have seen the Red Letter Media review of the film that dropped today, but they do call Kathleen Kennedy a hypocrite for not hiring more diverse directors and wonder if the droid character was invented as a parody of her.

[BeastieRunner]

Did the THX release really change anything though? I think it was one of the first time the films were really available easily in widescreen outside of the laserdisc, so some of the details cut from the "pan and scan" (or since the THX releases "fullscreen" were also scanned differently), so there might be some assumption that Lucas added items there, especially after 1997.

For example, early VHS of EMPIRE in pan and scan, during the Star Destroyers having some difficulty navigating the asteroid field, only showed Needa and the other guy reporting to Vader. The THX version though showed the other Imperial captain whose destroyer got hit by the asteroid, looking alarmed and fizzing out. So some people might have thought that was 'added' instead of simply out of frame.

The THX editions were mostly touch-ups to effects and SFX. They changed a musical que and fixed some sound quality issues. Nothing like adding a scene or altering one. They were where Lucas got the idea of the SEs, so he saw the potential there.

People swore for years he changed stuff because people thought different things happened, mainly the dianoga scene. It was brightened up a lot in the THX version, so the monster eye looked better.

[Carabas]

I don't think it's really a cost thing, if someone like Abrams were hired to plot out the entire new trilogy and then hire screen writers and directors to flesh it out, kind of like Lucas did the original trilogy...

Except of course Darth Vader was originally just going to be Darth Vader, father of nobody in particular.
And Luke's sister was going to be some space pirate queen Luke was going to look for in Episode VII.
And Han was going to die. And Endor was supposed to have Wookiees.

[Moon Ronin]

While that's sounds good, if they hired someone like Simon Kinberg, it would prevent him from doing four or five movies a year for multiple studios.

Point being if they have to hire some one like Kinberg to do Kennedy's job... then why keep Kennedy around?

Except of course Darth Vader was originally just going to be Darth Vader, father of nobody in particular.
And Luke's sister was going to be some space pirate queen Luke was going to look for in Episode VII.
And Han was going to die. And Endor was supposed to have Wookiees.

Which proves the point, if Empire went with Brackett's first script and Lucas just let to go with that Star Wars may not be the force it is today (pun completely intended). Star wars needs a person guiding the ship so to speak, an outline does not have to be rigidly followed. But had it not been Lucas rejecting her script and reworking it and then letting Kasdan polish it up no telling how it would have worked out (Sadly Brackett couldn't re work it due to cancer). This is a stark contrast the apparent carte blanche that Kennedy gave to Johnson.

[ClanAskani]

Point being if they have to hire some one like Kinberg to do Kennedy's job... then why keep Kennedy around?

Kennedy is far production-oriented than creative. She's very similar to someone like Amy Pascal - hiring the right talent and developing the right projects. Kinberg doesn't have that type of studio/producer experience. But having two large egos with different opinions wouldn't help production nor would it keep costs down.

My friend who works at a studio other than Disney said main issue Disney will have with Lucasfilm is the budgets. If they were keeping budgets down, then Solo's OW wouldn't be an issue. Because the budgets are astronomical and Kennedy has over and over fired writers and directors and had to do expensive reshoots, the budgets are likely spiraling out of control. Advertising costs are likely going to also have to increase since they can't rely on advertising partners doing most of their ad buys.

Which proves the point, if Empire went with Brackett's first script and Lucas just let to go with that Star Wars may not be the force it is today (pun completely intended). Star wars needs a person guiding the ship so to speak, an outline does not have to be rigidly followed. But had it not been Lucas rejecting her script and reworking it and then letting Kasdan polish it up no telling how it would have worked out (Sadly Brackett couldn't re work it due to cancer). This is a stark contrast the apparent carte blanche that Kennedy gave to Johnson.

Collaboration early on and plenty of pre-production time is key. Lucas did whatever he wanted with the Prequels, didn't listen to anyone and tossed in details that were unnecessary when someone could have later on had a better idea. But that was George Lucas and it was his story. There's no reason why Rian Johnson gets the same type of creative control. Writers' Room are used because they are a great way to come up with ideas. TV shows like Lost are amazing when you get a group of people together who are brilliant but there needs to be an ultimate vision or those ideas never go anywhere.

The rushed pre-production of the ST is the real issue - rumor had it Iger wanted a SW movie in production ASAP and they didn't have the time to actually develop a strategy nor would anyone have predicted the type of success Marvel movies and tv shows like Game of Thrones have had that makes longer sagas where every episode is required viewing would be the wave of the future. The idea of standalone movies which could be completely separate and unique and didn't require knowledge of previous movies would be standard operating procedure for someone like Kennedy.

With Allison Shearmur's unfortunate passing last year, Kennedy is going to have to bring in another person to replace her. That needs to be a creative person with a knowledge of Star Wars. Allison was someone very similar to Kennedy and a former studio exec who managed production budgets and coordinated productions teams.

[Jokerz79]

Are Star Wars Fans just natural whiners?

They haven't been universally happy since Empire I mean no matter Ewoks, Special Editions, Prequels, Disney, or Kathleen Kennedy they find something to whine about.

[BeastieRunner]

Are Star Wars Fans just natural whiners?

They haven't been universally happy since Empire I mean no matter Ewoks, Special Editions, Prequels, Disney, or Kathleen Kennedy they find something to whine about.

Pretty true. Most entitled fan base ever. I love pretty much everything Star Wars and it sucks sometimes because other fans are like, "YOU LIKE THE PREQUELS!? YOU ARE NOT A TRUE FAN!" "YOU LIKE TLJ!?!?!?! YOU ARE NOT A TRUE FAN!!"

I hate that.

[Anthony W]

Most entitled fan base ever.

Nope, that would be the Dr Who fans.

[Carabas]

Nope, that would be the Dr Who fans.

I think the Storm fandom has them all beaten.

[BeastieRunner]

Nope, that would be the Dr Who fans.

I've never had a bad experience with fellow Whovians. Just Star Wars fans. I've had Star Wars fans threaten to rape my children based on liking the prequels and not liking most of the Legends stuff while waiting in line at the latest movie with my kids.

The worst experience I've had with a Whovian was getting yelled at for mixing up companions that were before my time during a Canadian expo. And then they gave me tapes to watch afterwards so I wouldn't make the same mistake again.

[Anthony W]

I think the Storm fandom has them all beaten.

I would really like Beyonce' to play Storm just to see what would happen when fanbases collide.

[Sacred Knight]

In that case I think they'd have a gripe. One of the most overrated singers of all time who can't act? I'd feel bad for the fanbase, frankly.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

It's almost like Star Wars had one trancedent movie that mixed classic literary tropes with state of the art effects and then had a really great follow up, and then got incredibly overrated as a result and despite not having a single great film 35 years and only ranging from "didn't deserve to be in theaters to pretty competent at best" the fans love of those films make them think every Star Wars film should be a masterpiece. Even though the first one really was only going to work once and the second was just a lightning in a bottle scenario.