Why Dark Phoenix Saga?

[GigaBalls]

I was thinking today about how the X-men gang at Fox keeps wanting to do the Dark Phoenix Saga. I've been an X-Men fan for about 3 decades now. Probably read at least 1000 X-Men comics, if you include things like X-Force and X-Factor etc. And personally I don't find the Dark Phoenix Saga to be the best X-men story. Yes, its a good story, but its a shitty movie story. The X-men franchise had years of lore leading up to that point. Its also one of the most over the top stories, bringing in lots of Cosmic factors. Not only that but I feel its too long of a story to make into a single movie.

Fox also tries to ground the X-men to be more believable and earth oriented with their movies, then try and bring a cosmic story and ground it just destroying the entire story from what it was. Last Stand was a horrible attempt at it. I liked that movie not cause of the story, but simply getting to see all the new characters on screen. There's so many good stories and villains on Earth they could use.

If it was me, and I was picking up at the current point I'd do an X-men: God Loves, Man Kills type to start off. Perhaps with Mr. Sinister behind things, maybe introduce baby Cable into the movie too. Let it end with something big and crazy to truly send Magneto off the deep end(Hopefully killing off JLaw's Mystique). Then do an X-Force Movie at the same time with an X-Cutioners song feel. Then have the two teams come together for a Fatal Attractions storyline, with heavy hitters like Wolverine and Cable getting stomped like in the story, with Professor Xavier mind wiping Magneto in the end. Have that lead into an Onslaught story, bringing both teams together again to stop him but with a Heroes Reborn alternate reality ending for a few of the mutants sending them into the final film. Age of Apocalypse, perhaps with Cable being the only one that remembers aka the Bishop of the story.

What do you think? Do you think the Dark Phoenix saga is the best story? Do you also think its a bad movie story? Is there another big story you think would be way better?

[phoenixzero23]

I think it is the best x-men story but it's going to be a terrible movie unless you get a giant build up like the MCU did for infinity war. that probably is never going to happen, so it will be much better if the movies focused on other stories that may work better on the big screen.

[Divine Spark]

I think it is the best x-men story but it's going to be a terrible movie unless you get a giant build up like the MCU did for infinity war. that probably is never going to happen, so it will be much better if the movies focused on other stories that may work better on the big screen.

They have been building up the Phoenix since X2. Picked up again again in DOFP, where Xavier made a promise to Wolverine to help Jean with her power in the new timeline.

[SpiderClops]

They have been building up the Phoenix since X2. Picked up again again in DOFP, where Xavier made a promise to Wolverine to help Jean with her power in the new timeline.

The build up in X2 was for X3 and that's it. That's just one movie. But they f#$%&d it up. There is no build up to Phoenix whatsoever in Origins, First Class and The Wolverine. DoFP has one, maybe two, scenes that just references Jean/Phoenix, I wouldn't call it build up. The build up in Apocalypse is "here's Jean and here's Phoenix." That's lazy as hell.

[Wiccan]

Yeah I hate that they're doing Dark Phoenix right after Jean Grey's introduction on the previous movie. It's rushed, and there's like no emotional connection and that's the big thing about DPS.

You have this woman there going crazy with power and killing people and you feel bad for her. And you relate to the other X-Men when they still want to save her when the Shi'Ar are trying to stop her and kill he. You get sad because what Jean becomes as the Phoenix it's the total opposite of what she's been before. And her sacrifice at the end it's the biggest moment, showing her humanity. And in this movie it's probably not even gonna happen.

[Divine Spark]

Yeah I hate that they're doing Dark Phoenix right after Jean Grey's introduction on the previous movie. It's rushed, and there's like no emotional connection and that's the big thing about DPS.

You have this woman there going crazy with power and killing people and you feel bad for her. And you relate to the other X-Men when they still want to save her when the Shi'Ar are trying to stop her and kill he. You get sad because what Jean becomes as the Phoenix it's the total opposite of what she's been before. And her sacrifice at the end it's the biggest moment, showing her humanity. And in this movie it's probably not even gonna happen.

A movie like that would have never worked after X3 showed that Jean had a dark side.

I think the tragic in the movie version is that Xavier ultimately couldn’t live up to promise to Wolverine about saving her from that fate.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I was thinking today about how the X-men gang at Fox keeps wanting to do the Dark Phoenix Saga. I've been an X-Men fan for about 3 decades now. Probably read at least 1000 X-Men comics, if you include things like X-Force and X-Factor etc. And personally I don't find the Dark Phoenix Saga to be the best X-men story. Yes, its a good story, but its a shitty movie story. The X-men franchise had years of lore leading up to that point. Its also one of the most over the top stories, bringing in lots of Cosmic factors. Not only that but I feel its too long of a story to make into a single movie.

Fox also tries to ground the X-men to be more believable and earth oriented with their movies, then try and bring a cosmic story and ground it just destroying the entire story from what it was. Last Stand was a horrible attempt at it. I liked that movie not cause of the story, but simply getting to see all the new characters on screen. There's so many good stories and villains on Earth they could use.

If it was me, and I was picking up at the current point I'd do an X-men: God Loves, Man Kills type to start off. Perhaps with Mr. Sinister behind things, maybe introduce baby Cable into the movie too. Let it end with something big and crazy to truly send Magneto off the deep end(Hopefully killing off JLaw's Mystique). Then do an X-Force Movie at the same time with an X-Cutioners song feel. Then have the two teams come together for a Fatal Attractions storyline, with heavy hitters like Wolverine and Cable getting stomped like in the story, with Professor Xavier mind wiping Magneto in the end. Have that lead into an Onslaught story, bringing both teams together again to stop him but with a Heroes Reborn alternate reality ending for a few of the mutants sending them into the final film. Age of Apocalypse, perhaps with Cable being the only one that remembers aka the Bishop of the story.

What do you think? Do you think the Dark Phoenix saga is the best story? Do you also think its a bad movie story? Is there another big story you think would be way better?

This was already discussed quite a lot when we first got the info about this movie. And yeah most people agree with you that it's going to be next to impossible to do all of it in one movie, they really needed at least one more movie just dealing with all the characters they JUST INTRODUCED in Apocalypse.

I agree with a lot of the ideas you put out there as being good ones.

However, I still think this movie can be effective, entertaining, dramatic, and all that. But I think it has hurdles in front of it for sure.

[Wiccan]

A movie like that would have never worked after X3 showed that Jean had a dark side.

I think the tragic in the movie version is that Xavier ultimately couldn’t live up to promise to Wolverine about saving her from that fate.

Jean's dark side from X3 is the Phoenix... It's a part of her, yeah, but it's still a completely different personality from her normal one. It works the same way. And also no one really cares about continuity with the previous trilogy.

[AbnormallyNormal]

They have been building up the Phoenix since X2. Picked up again again in DOFP, where Xavier made a promise to Wolverine to help Jean with her power in the new timeline.

The problem with this way of looking at it is:

1) Those original movies were a LONG time ago, considering the ages involved of typical audiences for these films

2) Even people who saw them aren't necessarily going to think of it the way you are or connect all those dots psychologically

[Magnusilver]

Fox urges to make a good X-men movie and they want to play it easy.

[Tarantino]

I was thinking today about how the X-men gang at Fox keeps wanting to do the Dark Phoenix Saga. I've been an X-Men fan for about 3 decades now. Probably read at least 1000 X-Men comics, if you include things like X-Force and X-Factor etc. And personally I don't find the Dark Phoenix Saga to be the best X-men story. Yes, its a good story, but its a shitty movie story. The X-men franchise had years of lore leading up to that point. Its also one of the most over the top stories, bringing in lots of Cosmic factors. Not only that but I feel its too long of a story to make into a single movie.

Fox also tries to ground the X-men to be more believable and earth oriented with their movies, then try and bring a cosmic story and ground it just destroying the entire story from what it was. Last Stand was a horrible attempt at it. I liked that movie not cause of the story, but simply getting to see all the new characters on screen. There's so many good stories and villains on Earth they could use.

If it was me, and I was picking up at the current point I'd do an X-men: God Loves, Man Kills type to start off. Perhaps with Mr. Sinister behind things, maybe introduce baby Cable into the movie too. Let it end with something big and crazy to truly send Magneto off the deep end(Hopefully killing off JLaw's Mystique). Then do an X-Force Movie at the same time with an X-Cutioners song feel. Then have the two teams come together for a Fatal Attractions storyline, with heavy hitters like Wolverine and Cable getting stomped like in the story, with Professor Xavier mind wiping Magneto in the end. Have that lead into an Onslaught story, bringing both teams together again to stop him but with a Heroes Reborn alternate reality ending for a few of the mutants sending them into the final film. Age of Apocalypse, perhaps with Cable being the only one that remembers aka the Bishop of the story.

What do you think? Do you think the Dark Phoenix saga is the best story? Do you also think its a bad movie story? Is there another big story you think would be way better?

It's one of the greatest X-Men stories that deserves a build up and two films. Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry, Partick Stewart, Ian Mckellen, Anna Paquin, Famke Janssen and James Marsden would have been the better cast for the movie. If you are asking me, should the story be done in film, I would say yes after I have exhausted other comics first.

[Carabas]

It's one of the greatest X-Men stories that deserves a build up and two films. Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry, Partick Stewart, Ian Mckellen, Anna Paquin, Famke Janssen and James Marsden would have been the better cast for the movie. If you are asking me, should the story be done in film, I would say yes after I have exhausted other comics first.

Magneto has no business even being in it. And if they have to exhaust all other comics first (why? Claremont didn't call it a day after the Dark Phoenix Saga) they will literally never get to do it.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Magneto has no business even being in it. And if they have to exhaust all other comics first (why? Claremont didn't call it a day after the Dark Phoenix Saga) they will literally never get to do it.

^ This is true. Sometimes our own reverence for a story can lead to absurdly unreal expectations for how it "should" be adapted.

From my PoV this film is more about trying to get a Do-Over on X3 more than anything else, which I am 100% sure this movie will do a MUCH better job of covering this story than X3 did. And that is its primary objective.

As far as if Magneto should be in it... well if you're already removing KEY things like.. the Shi'ar completely? And introducing Skrulls? I think a Magneto presence is a minor distortion next to those. Plus, Magneto in the filmverse is a lot more advanced of a character than he was in the comics at the time of DPS. But we know in the comics he BECAME MORE how he currently is in the films. So to me it's just like what Claremont might have done had he rewritten DPS later on.

[SpiderClops]

^ This is true. Sometimes our own reverence for a story can lead to absurdly unreal expectations for how it "should" be adapted.

From my PoV this film is more about trying to get a Do-Over on X3 more than anything else, which I am 100% sure this movie will do a MUCH better job of covering this story than X3 did. And that is its primary objective.

As far as if Magneto should be in it... well if you're already removing KEY things like.. the Shi'ar completely? And introducing Skrulls? I think a Magneto presence is a minor distortion next to those. Plus, Magneto in the filmverse is a lot more advanced of a character than he was in the comics at the time of DPS. But we know in the comics he BECAME MORE how he currently is in the films. So to me it's just like what Claremont might have done had he rewritten DPS later on.

Being better than X3 is not a f@#$%^g achievement.

[jalsrix]

Yes, it's one of the greatest X-Men story. It introduces a lot of new characters like Proteus, Hellfire club, Shiar empire etc.

All the later writers are just cheap knock-offs of this great story.

But the story can't be made into a one part movee, it has to be told in a 3-5 parts movie like the planet of the apes. LOL