The Evil Superman Discussion Thread

[marhawkman]

It's just you.

Most the creators behind those characters will tell you "but Superman would never do those things because that's not who the character is."

It's fake to you because you don't want Superman's more traditional take to be sincere which you've made clear over thousands of posts hammering the same nail into the dirt.

The way Superman acts in Superman 714 and Action Comics 783 I dunno if it's just not a behavior people see as realistic, but it's a very Superman thing to do. In short, (for those who haven't read those) Superman fights 5 Supervillains and offers to help them become a superHERO.

This isn't because he's naïve. But because he knows all five of them (at least by reputation) and thinks that they could do good things as a hero.

Stone Emperor: super minor character that I don't remember seeing outside this story.
Scorch: Superman met her in Emperor Joker and realized that while she's hot-headed and not necessarily kind... she's also not generally CRUEL.
Ocean Master: hmm... not really sure why TBH. He's an Aquaman villain who wants to rule Atlantis. I guess the key word there is "rule"... not destroy.
Major Disaster: Deep down inside he's a guy who wants to make a name for himself.. and cash. The supervillain stuff was just a means to an end.
Livewire: The limit of her villainy is usually just to be a nuisance. She has great power but also no good idea what to do with it.

How did that go for Superman? well.. the only one of these characters that actually went back to villainy was Ocean Master. Stone Emperor and Scorch immediately retired from villainy(although in Scorch's case that was temporary, she never became a proper supervillain again, and did some things that were quite heroic actually). Major Disaster and Livewire actually became proper heroes(although this incarnation of Livewire got continuity rebooted out of existence soon after).

I gotta say, THAT is a satisfying Superman story to me. Superman doesn't just beat the villains, he causes them to no longer desire to BE villains. I can get why some people don't enjoy that as much as I do. But to me it is THE Superman thing to do.

[Gaius]

Since you have brought out injustice, in the game superman as a villain was only defeated by another superman, but in the comic he was everyone's whore, every time he fought he was defeated, even a squirrel defeated him.

Didn't he kill Mogo, a living planet GL?

and yeah, of course C'hip gave him a run for his money. Respect the GL Squirrel.

[NaVi]

Didn't he kill Mogo, a living planet GL?

and yeah, of course C'hip gave him a run for his money. Respect the GL Squirrel.

He did it after they saved his ass, and he empowered himself with the fear of the earth. Of all the lanterns that there were, the writer chose a squirrel, the most humiliating.
because the bat-clown was not defeated by a squirrel?

[Ra-El]

Is always good to remember that the "Good Superman" from Injustice was just a Superman luck enough to live in a planet where Joker's plan failed, and if memory don't fail me, the game pretty much ends with Good Superman's Batman saying to Injustice Batman that he would put GS down if he ever went evil.

So basically, Good Superman is just as mentally weak as Injustice's.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But does that make them bad characters? I don't think either of them are pure evil, Homelander is a mess due to his bad childhood and Omni-Man is a product of a toxic imperialist society and both seem to care about their sons in a weird twisted way. They are still bad people, I think there is nuances to their characters.

A character can be a horrible person and still be a interesting character.

I think Omniman is certainly a compelling character and, from what little I've seen of Homelander, so is he. They're both monsters, but they're certainly interesting ones.

[Gaius]

He did it after they saved his ass, and he empowered himself with the fear of the earth. Of all the lanterns that there were, the writer chose a squirrel, the most humiliating.
because the bat-clown was not defeated by a squirrel?

Yes, respect the veteraned and experienced member of the universal police force.

[DochaDocha]

Is always good to remember that the "Good Superman" from Injustice was just a Superman luck enough to live in a planet where Joker's plan failed, and if memory don't fail me, the game pretty much ends with Good Superman's Batman saying to Injustice Batman that he would put GS down if he ever went evil.

So basically, Good Superman is just as mentally weak as Injustice's.

I don't think it's strongly implied that GS is as much of a risk for madness as EVIL SUPERMAN! is, but it's not necessarily wrong to infer that, either. Really, it's because not much is said about GS.

[Robanker]

I don't think it's strongly implied that GS is as much of a risk for madness as EVIL SUPERMAN! is, but it's not necessarily wrong to infer that, either. Really, it's because not much is said about GS.

Good Superman ends the game saying "well that could have been me. Spooky" and Batman reiterating if he ever goes bad, he'll come after him. They can't let Clark have anything.

[Prime]

Is always good to remember that the "Good Superman" from Injustice was just a Superman luck enough to live in a planet where Joker's plan failed, and if memory don't fail me, the game pretty much ends with Good Superman's Batman saying to Injustice Batman that he would put GS down if he ever went evil.

So basically, Good Superman is just as mentally weak as Injustice's.

Not exactly. In the I justice comics it's revealed that Injustice Superman has always been messed up in the mind ever since he was a kid.

[Agent Z]

Nothing Snyder did with Superman is half as offensive as Overman.

[HsssH]

Not exactly. In the I justice comics it's revealed that Injustice Superman has always been messed up in the mind ever since he was a kid.

Huh, so this was probably Taylor quietly trying to distance Injustice version from the main one?

[manwhohaseverything]

Nothing Snyder did with Superman is half as offensive as Overman.

The only i thing i find offensive is a boring story or stories with reprehensible ideas.I don't get offended if superman in story threw a guy into the wall.Provided that people get through their skull that superman is a criminal and not something to be emulated.ever.

[Vordan]

Overman was inevitable given all the Elseworlds that played with “what if Kal-El had landed in a different country or at a different time?”, especially after Red Son tackled the other huge 20th century foe of America, and I find him fascinating. Morally he’s damned, he played an active role in establishing the World Reich, even though he never really stood a chance with Hitler as a dad. He’s an interesting exploration of the nature vs nurture argument with Superman. This Kal is able to realize he’s the bad guy (albeit long after it’s too late to do anything about it) even despite presumably being raised steeped in Nazi propaganda, so he does seem to possess some inherent moral core and he does attempt to stop the death camps, although his absence during Final Crisis means they finished the genocides anyway. So now he’s the God-Emperor of a fascist “utopia” built only for white Germans, just as he’s come to realize how evil the whole thing is.

[manwhohaseverything]

I find the nature vs nurture nonesense to be dumb.Especially with character needing sky parents and earth parents.It doesn't take the individuals will into account.I am not my father and i am not my adopted aunt either.They are not my moral centre's.I am not here to play out their morality as a simple tool or gun.It doesn't matter.I don't believe that, superman was that either.It ties down Superman as something created by environmental and exterior factors.Therefore,joker's one bad day tears him down.Superman does what He thinks is right.Superman is superman because even if he is half zod or raised by hitler.He would be the champion of the oppressed.Otherwise,he ain't superman.Actions matter,not names.

Just like this.Batman would always exist.

[Rightoya]

the last crisis and the bat-clown.

That was a Batman event in disguise, where Batman was a hero, a villain, and side characters at the same time, while the biggest difference between evil Superman and evil Wonder Woman is that she is typically far less powerful as a villain and even worse written than him.