Post Crisis Wonder Woman vs Android 18

[Nik Hasta]

And then there's Kenshiro who manages to combine the two into one sequence. Lifting and striking.

Because Kenshiro is the best.



And yes, I am aware of the irony of posting a feat for Kenshiro that isn't strictly speaking canon in a thread that has been extensively debating the notion of canon.

[buutenks]

To add to this, much of this is because of the reversal of school of thought of how strength is often displayed in shounen as compared to comics.

To generalize as much as possible, Western comics draw from mythological heroes like Hercules that display their strength via great feats of lifting and such. Many of those comics also focus on saving people or stopping things from blowing up, etc. that require ridiculous amounts of lifting and pulling.

On the flip side, though, their "striking" stuff rarely, rarely matches. They punch people far weaker and have less effect, when two superpowered beings fight, the collateral damage and things like shockwaves, etc. are often never around at all, etc. There are few and far between examples where their strength is depicted as displayed, but most of the time, it isn't. You can kind of see the reason - when stuff like MoS tries to depict what it would be like when two superpowered beings -really- struggle, lots of people complain and call it dark and prefer the "lighter" display of Marvel's films.

On the other side of the equation, a lot of Eastern manga is rooted in Eastern mythology, with a lot of that being based on ki and martial arts skill, and owing a lot to wuxia theater. Instead of "lifting" strength - it becomes more about striking through more and more durable things, or being able to affect more and more powerful opponents, or the collateral actions that what happen when you use your ki/attacks. Dragon Ball has more feats than normal due to a lot being based on Journey to the West, which has a bunch of ridiculous feats of it's own.

So, therefore, you run into a lot of conflicts there. One side has feats out of the wazoo in one area/focus, the other in the other, and it's basically two of the opposite sides of the coin meeting. People that are more used to thinking one way argue with people who think the other, and it often takes a while to come to an understanding, if ever.

Sadly it never does.No one will say,ok i understand,dbz characters can punch that hard but they cant lift that hard.

If people would be that understanding wars would be avoided ^^

And then there's Kenshiro who manages to combine the two into one sequence. Lifting and striking.

Because Kenshiro is the best.



And yes, I am aware of the irony of posting a feat for Kenshiro that isn't strictly speaking canon in a thread that has been extensively debating the notion of canon.

Very cool indeed.Especially those guys expression when they see ken walking through that building like nothing.

[Farealmer]

For DBZ, there is a school of thought that DBZ characters have a specialised defence against energy/a specialised weakness against raw brute force (depending on which way you want to argue it) because, if we accept the premise that every random ass ki blast from Sayain Piccolo on up contains power way of at least moon-busting, then it makes them being hurt by punches and kicks seem way out of place because DBZ flat out doesn't have the raw strength feats to backup them being that strong.

This is my favorite because it could literally apply to DC Flashes and their ilk. Who have zero raw strength feats because of the nature of their powers. Yet I have in my time here never heard of anyone say their harming post crisis bricks is invalid, nor do I believe such a thing(just incase someone thinks that's what this is). Flash and Zoom in particular I've never heard of busting a moon/country or even city. Yet it is beyond any doubt they can harm DC class 100's physically.

I just don't get it, why is their such a block with this? Is it people just can't live on a planet in which it's accepted DBZ characters can go even with or beyond DC bricks? And why is it such an issue to begin with? Lots of anime characters can beat DC bricks, why is DBZ so different to accept? Their are precedents on this board for granting high end striking power without busting feats in a given characters history. Not directed at you Nik, just saying it out loud as it were.

[Siriel]

Or 18 aftering seeing ssj trunks firing off a ki blast and exploding nearby,goes lol that is super strong,18 cant sense ki so she just went by how big the exposion was,which wasnt really that big to begin with and she found it impressive.

Just to note she doesn't find it impressive because of its power relative to hers. (Goten/Trunks are below Freeza at that point, they're no threat to her.)

She finds it ridiculous that they're shooting ki blasts that cause giant explosions in a public place. She wouldn't even have to sense ki to realize "oh hey it just made a big explosion those guys are idiots."

[buutenks]

Just to note she doesn't find it impressive because of its power relative to hers. (Goten/Trunks are below Freeza at that point, they're no threat to her.)

She finds it ridiculous that they're shooting ki blasts that cause giant explosions in a public place. She wouldn't even have to sense ki to realize "oh hey it just made a big explosion those guys are idiots."

Well she states,that those 2 shrimps are incredibly powerful after seeing the explosion ^^

Anyways i just wanted to point out that there r inconsistencies like this in the dbz manga also,where characters or the author namely forgets things that were done before ^^

That is all,i didnt mean they cant do this or that,just dbz has their power inconsistency like any fiction.

[Guy1]

MODERATOR

Having looked over the thread, my view on Canon is that it goes the DB Manga, the new Movies (BoG and upcoming Frieza Movie) and DBO.
I don't see DBZ Kai as being canon at all. It's a shortened version of the anime, but that's really all it is.

Let's let that stand as our ruling on DBZ Canon.

Furthermore, Cody, please tone down your attitude or cease posting in the thread.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

This is my favorite because it could literally apply to DC Flashes and their ilk. Who have zero raw strength feats because of the nature of their powers. Yet I have in my time here never heard of anyone say their harming post crisis bricks is invalid, nor do I believe such a thing(just incase someone thinks that's what this is). Flash and Zoom in particular I've never heard of busting a moon/country or even city. Yet it is beyond any doubt they can harm DC class 100's physically.

Do to very specific abilities like the Infinite Mass Punch and being able to phase their brains out of their skulls, mostly.

I just don't get it, why is their such a block with this? Is it people just can't live on a planet in which it's accepted DBZ characters can go even with or beyond DC bricks? And why is it such an issue to begin with? Lots of anime characters can beat DC bricks, why is DBZ so different to accept? Their are precedents on this board for granting high end striking power without busting feats in a given characters history. Not directed at you Nik, just saying it out loud as it were.

Personally, I have no issue with DC characters getting torn apart.

No.

Issue.

At.

All.

But that's not the issue here.

[Cody]

MODERATOR

Furthermore, Cody, please tone down your attitude or cease posting in the thread.

Wait what? What are you talking about? I've been completely civil throughout this entire thing.

[Guy1]

Wait what? What are you talking about? I've been completely civil throughout this entire thing.

I can view your edited posts. There was a problem with those. I respect that you edited them to be more civil, but the attitude problem is still there. Just keep it calm and civil in the future.

[buutenks]

MODERATOR

Having looked over the thread, my view on Canon is that it goes the DB Manga, the new Movies (BoG and upcoming Frieza Movie) and DBO.
I don't see DBZ Kai as being canon at all. It's a shortened version of the anime, but that's really all it is.

Let's let that stand as our ruling on DBZ Canon.

Furthermore, Cody, please tone down your attitude or cease posting in the thread.

What is that in your avatar?A digimon,if so name please?

Off topic:Im not very fond of BoG,while i truely enjoy the new characters and their power sets and ssj god status the movie itself isnt ground breaking so i hope Revival of F will live up to its hype.

[Anarchist]

the Trunks special,

Eh, that special straight-up contradicts the manga (Trunks being a SSJ before Gohan died, were as he became one after he died in the special)

[Cody]

I can view your edited posts. There was a problem with those. I respect that you edited them to be more civil, but the attitude problem is still there. Just keep it calm and civil in the future.

That one post where I said that referring to canon as "manga version" was stupid? Since it was as it was just creating more and more confusion? There was no attitude there, just stating the obvious. I wasn't calling anyone stupid. I said it was an outdated concept. I changed it to "silly" since it was going a little to far but not once have I called someone themselves stupid.

Considering I edited like minutes after making the post, I don't really understand the reason for calling me out on something that I changed in under 5 minutes of the post...I don't mean to be arguing with you here but come on. Getting on me for something that wasn't meant to offend anyone in particular, and was changed literally minutes after saying it doesn't make much sense to me..

[Cody]

Eh, that special straight-up contradicts the manga (Trunks being a SSJ before Gohan died, were as he became one after he died in the special)

He was an SSJ before Gohan died in the manga?

[Guy1]

What is that in your avatar?A digimon,if so name please?

Kamen Rider Wizard Infinity Dragon Gold.
http://kamenrider.wikia.com/wiki/Haruto_Soma#Styles
Because the guy who can kick you into the sun totally needed more powerups.

[Guy1]

That one post where I said that referring to canon as "manga version" was stupid? Since it was as it was just creating more and more confusion? There was no attitude there, just stating the obvious. I wasn't calling anyone stupid. I said it was an outdated concept. I changed it to "silly" since it was going a little to far but not once have I called someone themselves stupid.

Considering I edited like minutes after making the post, I don't really understand the reason for calling me out on something that I changed in under 5 minutes of the post...I don't mean to be arguing with you here but come on. Getting on me for something that wasn't meant to offend anyone in particular, and was changed literally minutes after saying it doesn't make much sense to me..

My point is, just chill a bit.