Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[Eto]

Well, the villain never came back, so...

IMO, the second one is worse considering that it would mean that he's suffering FOREVER, yet he doesn't die either.
Damn.

[DigiCom]

IMO, the second one is worse considering that it would mean that he's suffering FOREVER, yet he doesn't die either.
Damn.

Ditko didn't play games. This is the same guy who came up with Mr. A, after all.

[IonRyner]

I enjoyed the Surgeon Supreme series written by Mark Waid. Waid is a skilled writer and he knows Strange and his story history very well. Strange had his hands fixed with magic so now he can be a doctor again as well as Sorcerer Supreme. I thought it was well written, though since it was cancelled there's no way to know now what Waid had been planning longer term. It's quite a break from Strange's previous history. I have no idea if Waid meant for this to be how Strange would be portrayed going forward, or if Strange having his hands magically healed would be undone at some point as part of a larger story arc. I guess we'll see when Marvel gives us another series.

As for Clea, if they do bring her back into the comics again, I'll be interested to see how they show her reacting to having her memories erased. I like Clea and Strange together as a couple, but their relationship has not always been portrayed well. I'd hope they'll write her as an adult with her own agency.

Agreed I to hope they do that with Clea, it was good to see her again in the 2018 series. I hope they do more with her when or if they decide to bring Strange and Clea back.
I did sort of like the 2015 2018 series but I felt like they nerfed Strange.

speaking of Clea I was am rereading the 1974 series and on issue #18 Clea willingly cheats on Strange with Benjamin Franklin or is heavily implied. Especially when she says to strange "THERE are needs that a woman has that a Man can satisfy" then its shown as an illusion.

I have seen people online say that was the intention of the original writer Steve Englehart, that Clea definitely cheated on Strange while he was fighting. That it was suppose to be a year long story of her unfaithfulness etc starting with Issue #18 in the 1974 series about her unfaithfulness. Yet marvel immediately removed the writer with another writer and retconned the story only after one issue. By saying that it was an illusion from an evil sorcerer and Clea never cheated on Strange. Yet if the writer was allowed to continue what he was doing and wasn't retconned immediately then Clea definitely betrayed Strange by having an affair.

Again I don't know how true that is but that is what I have been seeing, that originally she cheated but marvel didn't like it and changed it with an illusion.

[DigiCom]

Yeah, that's happened more than once.

https://www.cbr.com/benjamin-frankli...fair-deadpool/

[IonRyner]

Marvel sure likes its retcon's, maybe they can retcon it where stephen never cheated on clea and that it was just a dream or something.

@DigiCom all those other stories that were forgotten/abandoned that you linked I had no idea about either.

https://www.cbr.com/the-abandoned-an-forsaked-1/

[Clea]

While you are of course entitled to your opinion, I cannot agree. Speech patterns, word choice, diction and so forth should arise from character, not from external circumstance. Not every character should be "accessible". It's the same mindset that often leads to Stephen being depowered, simply because a writer wants to make him more "relatable" and/or "realistic".

What this leads to, sometimes, is a character who has had EVERYTHING that made him unique taken away from him, all in the service of some editorial archetype.

Formal speech pattern? Not accessible. He should be quippy and sarcastic
Regular love interest? Nah, let's make him a playboy. That sells better.
Magical powers? Let's take them away, so he has to work for everything.
Fancy costume? Too comicbooky... let's throw him in a turtleneck and a trenchcoat.
Old-fashioned origin? Too cliched, and a bit racist. Let's make it a Matrix ripoff, instead.
Had to learn humility in his origin story? Let's strip that lesson and make him learn it again!

But hey... he's still Doctor Strange. He just lacks the same personality, backstory, looks, and powers!

(While I'm exaggerating for effect, many of those changes were actually done in ONE MINI about 16 years ago.)

Fortunately, Marvel editorial and writers decide who Strange is and how they want to portray him going forward, not the fans. They have a good internal idea of who the character has been and who he is now. I agree with you that Marvel should not erase everything that made Strange a unique character with his own personality, world view, and history, just to appeal to fans who want to make all of the characters sound and act alike. How dull that would be.

[IonRyner]

I am not a fan of the editorial nerfing strange removing who and what he was, he was just fine the way he was before they decided to change everything. He is not the strange we see in the previous series at full power/full strength. Not a nerfed character that marvel likes to do, just leave him the way he was and not change anything. That is what I like about the older series, he was not nerfed and was usually at full power.

[Clea]

IMO, the second one is worse considering that it would mean that he's suffering FOREVER, yet he doesn't die either.
Damn.

I think Strange likely used the Eye of Agomotto to kill the demon. He also wiped out that demon's entire dimension. As he said, 'it can no longer endure.'

[Clea]

Yeah, that's happened more than once.

https://www.cbr.com/benjamin-frankli...fair-deadpool/

Marvel sure likes its retcon's, maybe they can retcon it where stephen never cheated on clea and that it was just a dream or something.

@DigiCom all those other stories that were forgotten/abandoned that you linked I had no idea about either.

https://www.cbr.com/the-abandoned-an-forsaked-1/

I remember when they had Clea cheat on Strange with Benjamin Franklin, then retconned it, then retconned it back. LOL. Make up your minds, Marvel! I don't think they should retcon the more recent stories showing Strange cheating on her. What they could do is either just let it all go and never mention it again, or else examine and explore it in a future story because it's an integral part of understanding what makes him tick as a character. Strange has always had commitment issues, but not because he's a playboy. He suffered a series of emotional losses that caused him to intentionally choose only superficial relationships to spare himself and others from any more emotional harm. Then when he because Sorcerer Supreme, he felt even more that he had to push people away from him and couldn't allow himself to be close to others in order to protect them and himself from actual life and death harm. He pushed Clea away emotionally before he cheated on her physically. If they do decide to restore Clea's memories and bring her back into play as a character, this could be one thing they could explore.

[Albert1981]

Gal.

Have you read many Doctor Strange comics, current or Silver Age?

Well, how do you do ma'am?

My first exposure to Strange was when I read the Vision and Scarlet Witch series from the 80s, when I found out that Strange was not only a neurosurgeon, but an OBGYN as well. As for a Strange book, I vaguely liking the Benjamin Franklin issue when I first read it (can't remember the exact date I read it). Firstly, because I've always liked it when comic books included real-life historical figures in them, and also because I'm interested in Revolutionary America. Other than that, I've just seen him in some cartoons and the movies.

[Albert1981]

While you are of course entitled to your opinion, I cannot agree. Speech patterns, word choice, diction and so forth should arise from character, not from external circumstance. Not every character should be "accessible". It's the same mindset that often leads to Stephen being depowered, simply because a writer wants to make him more "relatable" and/or "realistic".

What this leads to, sometimes, is a character who has had EVERYTHING that made him unique taken away from him, all in the service of some editorial archetype.

Formal speech pattern? Not accessible. He should be quippy and sarcastic
Regular love interest? Nah, let's make him a playboy. That sells better.
Magical powers? Let's take them away, so he has to work for everything.
Fancy costume? Too comicbooky... let's throw him in a turtleneck and a trenchcoat.
Old-fashioned origin? Too cliched, and a bit racist. Let's make it a Matrix ripoff, instead.
Had to learn humility in his origin story? Let's strip that lesson and make him learn it again!

But hey... he's still Doctor Strange. He just lacks the same personality, backstory, looks, and powers!

(While I'm exaggerating for effect, many of those changes were actually done in ONE MINI about 16 years ago.)

Well, what an eye-opening and insightful response to my opinion! Very interesting and articulate. You make some legitimate points, some of which I somewhat agree with...But not totally. To me, Doctor Strange is a character that is closely associated with "drug culture", and the counterculture era of the 60s and 70s. Like Clea stated earlier, his language had to be modernized to adapt to changing times. But I still found it to be really REALLY arcane and abstract for much of his publishing history (from what I have seen online). And I know medical practitioners like Stephen. They don't talk that way. The doctors I know are pretty direct, candid and straightforward talkers. Due to his extensive medical training, I think Strange should talk like surgeons do. Or at least like the doctors that were portrayed in the Star Trek franchise. I don't mind the mystical dialogue he uses (I think he NEEDS to speak in a "medieval" way when he casts spells and interacts with demons), but I think too much of it could alienate audiences. And the archaic prose I spoke about really fits with British accents. But Cumberbatch speaks like an American. So it doesn't really work for me, you know? I want Strange to be as popular in the comic books as he is in the movies. And one reason I think he is popular on screen is because of his use of "contemporary dialogue".

[Clea]

Well, what an eye-opening and insightful response to my opinion! Very interesting and articulate. You make some legitimate points, some of which I somewhat agree with...But not totally. To me, Doctor Strange is a character that is closely associated with "drug culture", and the counterculture era of the 60s and 70s. Like Clea stated earlier, his language had to be modernized to adapt to changing times. But I still found it to be really REALLY arcane and abstract for much of his publishing history (from what I have seen online). And I know medical practitioners like Stephen. They don't talk that way. The doctors I know are pretty direct, candid and straightforward talkers. Due to his extensive medical training, I think Strange should talk like surgeons do. Or at least like the doctors that were portrayed in the Star Trek franchise. I don't mind the mystical dialogue he uses (I think he NEEDS to speak in a "medieval" way when he casts spells and interacts with demons), but I think too much of it could alienate audiences. And the archaic prose I spoke about really fits with British accents. But Cumberbatch speaks like an American. So it doesn't really work for me, you know? I want Strange to be as popular in the comic books as he is in the movies. And one reason I think he is popular on screen is because of his use of "contemporary dialogue".

It's worth keeping in mind that Strange isn't a real world doctor so the writers are under no obligation to portray him as one. I'll wager that he was originally designed to be a surgeon because surgeons require a ton of education, an extreme amount of self-confidence that can easily lead them to becoming egotistical jerks, and because they're usually called on in extreme medical cases or as the solution that represents the last best hope for their patient. (Again, requiring self confidence and ego.) Plus, they end up wealthy. That's what Strange was: an extremely educated, extremely skilled healer who was also a self-absorbed egotistical ass. They immediately knocked him down and set him on a new path. Any other resemblance to a real world doctor is meaningless. He's a sorcerer now.

As for his speaking patterns, Marvel updated the way that all of the Silver Age characters spoke, not just Strange. Strange needs to sound like an extremely educated, extremely experienced man who's been taught the mystical arts, not sound like a real world surgeon. IMO, he needs to be consistent with his overall portrayal in this books, and stay consistent with the logical and worldbuilding done in his books, not align with what a real world doctor acts or sounds like.

[DigiCom]

Well, what an eye-opening and insightful response to my opinion! Very interesting and articulate. You make some legitimate points, some of which I somewhat agree with...But not totally. To me, Doctor Strange is a character that is closely associated with "drug culture", and the counterculture era of the 60s and 70s. Like Clea stated earlier, his language had to be modernized to adapt to changing times. But I still found it to be really REALLY arcane and abstract for much of his publishing history (from what I have seen online). And I know medical practitioners like Stephen. They don't talk that way. The doctors I know are pretty direct, candid and straightforward talkers. Due to his extensive medical training, I think Strange should talk like surgeons do. Or at least like the doctors that were portrayed in the Star Trek franchise. I don't mind the mystical dialogue he uses (I think he NEEDS to speak in a "medieval" way when he casts spells and interacts with demons), but I think too much of it could alienate audiences. And the archaic prose I spoke about really fits with British accents. But Cumberbatch speaks like an American. So it doesn't really work for me, you know? I want Strange to be as popular in the comic books as he is in the movies. And one reason I think he is popular on screen is because of his use of "contemporary dialogue".

I just want to make a few comments here:

1) While the art style of those original stories is often described as "trippy", the artist (and writer) who actually crafted those stories was far removed from 60s drug culture... he was a 36-year old professional who had already been drawing comics for a decade, and preferred Ayn Rand to Abbie Hoffman.

2) If Stephen was a medical professional who occasionally did magic, I'd agree with you. But in the comics, he's been focused primarily on the mystic arts for years, possibly decades (depending on the current editorial view). One story indicated that he should be over 1000 years old by now. So "he doesn't sound like modern medical professionals" is a feature, not a bug.

3) No Marvel Comics character has EVER been as popular as their MCU equivalent. Editorial keeps trying, but it just doesn't happen. I wouldn't hold my breath on that changing.

[Albert1981]

It's worth keeping in mind that Strange isn't a real world doctor so the writers are under no obligation to portray him as one. I'll wager that he was originally designed to be a surgeon because surgeons require a ton of education, an extreme amount of self-confidence that can easily lead them to becoming egotistical jerks, and because they're usually called on in extreme medical cases or as the solution that represents the last best hope for their patient. (Again, requiring self confidence and ego.) Plus, they end up wealthy. That's what Strange was: an extremely educated, extremely skilled healer who was also a self-absorbed egotistical ass. They immediately knocked him down and set him on a new path. Any other resemblance to a real world doctor is meaningless. He's a sorcerer now.

As for his speaking patterns, Marvel updated the way that all of the Silver Age characters spoke, not just Strange. Strange needs to sound like an extremely educated, extremely experienced man who's been taught the mystical arts, not sound like a real world surgeon. IMO, he needs to be consistent with his overall portrayal in this books, and stay consistent with the logical and worldbuilding done in his books, not align with what a real world doctor acts or sounds like.

No kidding! From the Vision and Scarlet Witch mini, I was under the impression that he was STILL practicing! Boy was I wrong. I do agree with your comments if he's not really a medical doctor anymore (which is a shame, I would like to see that aspect of his life too). I just go by what I have seen in the movies. I think Strange HAS become a better person over the movies, but he's still pretty arrogant in my opinion (which I LIKE). Maybe in Strange 2, he'll become a little bit more mature. I kinda doubt it though. I think the male characters in the MCU are just man-children at heart and I think that's fine. Fans love that. I think his characterization in the films is fine. I like the fact that he has an agile mind and tries to solve problems through intelligence and creativity as opposed to brute magical force. His quippiness I've totally accepted. Ever since AoU, the MCU has been steadily increasing the number of jokes in their films, and I have no problem with that. I like comedy in superhero stuff.

[Albert1981]

I just want to make a few comments here:

1) While the art style of those original stories is often described as "trippy", the artist (and writer) who actually crafted those stories was far removed from 60s drug culture... he was a 36-year old professional who had already been drawing comics for a decade, and preferred Ayn Rand to Abbie Hoffman.

2) If Stephen was a medical professional who occasionally did magic, I'd agree with you. But in the comics, he's been focused primarily on the mystic arts for years, possibly decades (depending on the current editorial view). One story indicated that he should be over 1000 years old by now. So "he doesn't sound like modern medical professionals" is a feature, not a bug.

3) No Marvel Comics character has EVER been as popular as their MCU equivalent. Editorial keeps trying, but it just doesn't happen. I wouldn't hold my breath on that changing.

I think that first Strange movie definitely leaned in on the psychedelic angle for sure. I mean, they had Stan Lee giggling and laughing while reading Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception in it. I thought Stephen was STILL a practicing medical doctor. I had no idea he had given up on that profession years ago. I guess he's no longer interested in being a healer? Yeah, I know Marvel Comics characters will never be as popular as their movie/television versions. But I hear Strange doesn't have a series these days. If his character works on screen, maybe they can transfer some of his personality to the comic books? I like him when he's not "brooding."