Countdown for Krakoa's downfall

[scourge]

Well... we kinda sorta know where Clan Akkaba came from already. Maybe Apoccy is gonna make a new Akkaba?

Uriel and Eimin are not his children at least not directly. Ichisumi and Warren Worthington dunno if either is one of his descendants. There's not a huge number of known descendants left.

I just meant I already saw people making shippy fan-art elsewhere the afternoon of that Wednesday.

[Gray Lensman]

If we are going to discuss the initial question, I'd say the summer event in 2021 is when things go down.

[Lucyinthesky]

"Magneto, not a villain" was only true under Claremont's pen and Carey's too.
For the rest of authors, he was more or less shady,… let's say ambiguous,… and then not very sympathetic.
I like him but not in all of his incarnations and certainly not in his current one of arrogant supremacist.

Same here and right now even inside story his alingment is ambigous at best and supremacist at worst still I like better the Carey, Claremont, Magneto not a hero and Bunn one but Hickman´s magneto has his moments, I liked this exchange between him and the ambassadors from HoX #1. It explains a lot about how mutants see Krakoa and how the rest of the world see Krakoa.

[Alan2099]

"Magneto, not a villain" was only true under Claremont's pen and Carey's too.
For the rest of authors, he was more or less shady,… let's say ambiguous,… and then not very sympathetic.
I like him but not in all of his incarnations and certainly not in his current one of arrogant supremacist.

You do have a bit of a point on Claremont and Carey, but even then at his most heroic, he still felt rather shady at times.

[BroHomo]

Well... we kinda sorta know where Clan Akkaba came from already. Maybe Apoccy is gonna make a new Akkaba?

That's gonna take at least 9 months and a LOT of PL

[Gray Lensman]

You do have a bit of a point on Claremont and Carey, but even then at his most heroic, he still felt rather shady at times.

Magneto tends to straddle the line between an antihero and antivillain. I doubt that will ever change - the last guy to try and return him into full on unrepentant villain territory was unceremoniously fired.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Well Fvck preeetty sure Im remembering correctly... He released his deadly EMP during Fatsl attractions to disable the Satellites the Un had put in place to stop him, inadvertently causing the deaths of both humans and Mutants. During Magneto War he did release another one on a smaller scale as a warning shot the UN. If he only wanted death and destruction warning the enemy seemsijw an odd way of going about it

They didn't do that at random, he was in the middle of an attack on humanity. Magneto's a pro-active villain, he wasn't raided in his compound watching tv by authorities. "Magneto war" had an EMP on the global scale, instant death. Magneto doesn't do warnings, he does murder and terrorism. It's not a "warning shot" when planes fall out of sky on a global scale. Think about how many planes are in the air, pre-contravirus, and how many people are on them.

He obviously didn't want to destroy humanity completely or humanity woulda been gone. but dude I'm preeeeeeetty sure Fatal Attractions=Big EMP killed scores of people. Magneto War= small EMP. killed electronics as a warning

No "obviously" about it, you're understating how monstrous he's been written. The EMP was made by a machine which reversed the poles of the Earth. The goal was to destroy all electronics, that's why the X-men were sent to destroy the machine. Nothing about that was an accident.

That was kinda my point. he WAS a 'villian' during all this. Or I guess the way he tried to achieve his goal was villianous.Soooo of course he's not going to act in the most upstanding way. But he's no longer a villian former reactions aren't apart of his modus operandi, buuuuut Even as a 'villian' he showed restraint: releasing a warning shot. When he finally took over Genosha...he didn't immediately order the death of every human man woman &child hell he had a human sitting at his table of leaders

This is just one act in a never ending history of bad acts of terrorism and murder. It wasn't a one-off, it wasn't out of character. All Magneto knows is how to achieve his goals with villainous methods, that's what separates him from the X-men. There was no warning shot. Genosha was when he started to settle down, but he was an ominous threat to humanity given who he was. That doesn't erase the victims blood he made prior to that.

Toooootally not tryna to justify it just pointing out the hypocrisy and fallacy of thinking Magnetos or whoevers body count will somehow lead to the destruction of KraKoa when The institutions that Hero's that have a much higher kill count are still standing

What you've been doing is justifying magneto in circumstances that are good vs evil. Magneto may be complicated but he's monster. How are you judging the kill count? Apocalypse has destroyed the world in more than one time line. Terrorism and murder isn't justified because you think the other guys are worse. It's really not good to blame all of humanity for their monsters, it's like judging all mutant kind because Magneto's a violent psychopath with a kill count that dwarfs 9/11.

How So?
He didn't directly target humans or any specific people. That woulda been Genocidal. Also his EMP only affected 616.
a lil totally unlike MDay

Right, what Magneto did was far worse. The canonicity of Wanda's power affecting the multiverse is hardly substantial. Magneto targeted everyone, even his own people. He didn't care that they would die in his schemes.

[Lucyinthesky]

So if nothing Magneto has done since those days, including saving the world a number of times from villains like Red Skull, then why exactly should Wanda be forgiven by the decimated mutants and we can argue she got off scott free more than Magneto given he at least was put into a coma after fatal attractions and Genosha was completely destroyed with him on it and lest remember at least magneto didn´t hurt people at a multiverse level.

If this is the case then the actual status quo is fair:

Wanda is feared and hated by mutants but at least she has a chance to get better with the avengers.

Magneto is feared and hated by regular humans but at least he has a chance to do some good with the X-men and put his powers to good use he even once told Psylocke that if he got back into bad habits she should kill him and she did during Bunn´s run.

[Alan2099]

So if nothing Magneto has done since those days, including saving the world a number of times from villains like Red Skull, then why exactly should Wanda be forgiven by the decimated mutants and we can argue she got off scott free more than Magneto given he at least was put into a coma after fatal attractions and Genosha was completely destroyed with him on it and lest remember at least magneto didn´t hurt people at a multiverse level.

If this is the case then the actual status quo is fair:

Wanda is feared and hated by mutants but at least she has a chance to get better with the avengers.

Magneto is feared and hated by regular humans but at least he has a chance to do some good with the X-men and put his powers to good use.

The different is mental state and intent.

Wanda was being manipulated and wasn't in her right mind when she did that. Afterwards she has tried to make amends.
Magneto intended to be a bad guy, enjoyed doing it, has never apologized and would do it again in a minute if he thought he needed to.

Magneto tends to straddle the line between an antihero and antivillain. I doubt that will ever change - the last guy to try and return him into full on unrepentant villain territory was unceremoniously fired.

Magneto is a villain. Wanting to protect his people might be an admirable trait, but it doesn't change the fact that the way he does it is villainous. Nor does it change his character from being a murderous racists. It just means he has some good qualities somewhere.

At best, Magneto is a sympathetic monster.

[Lucyinthesky]

Wanda wasn´t being manipulated, she had a nervous breakdown and used her powers in an irresponsible way, just like Jean during the Dark Phoenix saga and at least Jean had the presence of mind to admit she was in the wrong without looking for scapegoats to justify herself.

Magneto has had mental instability since his powers make him unstable, that´s canon and he has never thought of doing something similar again because he very well knows there´s no justification for what he did, just like Xavier after Onslaught has not tried to shut down another person mind again. Magneo told so to Scott after he himself was trying to use the phoenix force as justification for killing charles, his argument was "Why would the phoenix be interested in killing your father figure?"

[Steel Inquisitor]

Wanda wasn´t being manipulated, she had a nervous breakdown and used her powers in an irresponsible way, just like Jean during the Dark Phoenix saga and at least Jean had the presence of mind to admit she was in the wrong without looking for scapegoats to justify herself.

A key reason how she got to the "No More mutants" conclusion is by being convinced by Quicksilver in a moment of weakness. Every time she's done something bad she's been remorseful and it was out of character for her to do so. Jean wasn't the Phoenix in the Pheonix Saga, the Pheonix assumed her form. Magneto wasn't having a nervous breakdown in either "Fatal Attractions" or "Magneto War."

Magneto has had mental instability since his powers make him unstable, that´s canon and he has never thought of doing something similar again because he very well knows there´s no justification for what he did, just like Xavier after Onslaught has not tried to shut down another person mind again. Magneo told so to Scott after he himself was trying to use the phoenix force as justification for killing charles, his argument was "Why would the phoenix be interested in killing your father figure?"

He did the EMP thing twice, and that's a tiny portion of what's he's done as a mutant terrorist. Unlike Wanda, that's how he's supposed to be written. Without Magneto's actions there is no Onslaught, the reason Xavier did that was because he ripped out Wolverine's adamantium. This infected Xavier, not the only way around - that's why Onslaught looks like Magneto. Scott was high on the Phoenix Force, which requires some leniency (Phoenix empowered Magik shunted Rogue to another world when she tried to rescue Carol Danvers from hell, as an example) - which is more then Magneto deserves given he's been doing this from Day One.

[Lucyinthesky]

A key reason how she got to the "No More mutants" conclusion is by being convinced by Quicksilver in a moment of weakness. Every time she's done something bad she's been remorseful and it was out of character for her to do so. Jean wasn't the Phoenix in the Pheonix Saga, the Pheonix assumed her form. Magneto wasn't having a nervous breakdown in either "Fatal Attractions" or "Magneto War."

Quicksilver had the HoM idea, "No more mutants" was all Wanda.

I am not saying Magneto didn´t deserve what he got, that´s just the nature of comics, I am saying it´s fair that Wanda gets at least a little responsibility and blame for what she did given other characters have certainly gotten their part in consequences: Cyclops was hated by the X-men for a time and even called Hitler before being killed out of camera by terrigenesis, Jean got her entire family murdered over her previous relationship with the phoenix, magneto was killed or almost killed on Genosha, put in a coma after Fatal attractions, got depowered after HoM, beaten by Quicksivler in SoM and almost killed by Exodus and Logan after HoM.

Compared to that Wanda has had a very understanding coming back with the Avengers and the most mutants have done to her is name call her, which is like a slap on the wrist tbh and worse instead of doing a proper redemption arc for her marvel twisted itself into making the mutants or the X-men the antagonist in the story and that´s just unfair given they were the victim there.

I sympathize with the situation Wanda´s character was put by marvel editorial but this doesn´t change the fact that inside story the consequences Wanda has gotten over her actions have been minimal with a little slice of victim-blaming the mutants for something they had no control over.

[Agent Z]

He obviously didn't want to destroy humanity completely or humanity woulda been gone.

If Magneto wanted to destroy humanity, he'd have been stopped. Either by the X-Men or any of the numerous heroes in the MU. Magneto is not invincible (that goes against the idea of him being oppressed).

That was kinda my point. he WAS a 'villian' during all this. Or I guess the way he tried to achieve his goal was villianous.Soooo of course he's not going to act in the most upstanding way. But he's no longer a villian former reactions aren't apart of his modus operandi, buuuuut Even as a 'villian' he showed restraint: releasing a warning shot.

An EMP is not a warning a shot.

Toooootally not tryna to justify it just pointing out the hypocrisy and fallacy of thinking Magnetos or whoevers body count will somehow lead to the destruction of KraKoa when The institutions that Hero's that have a much higher kill count are still standing

And yeah can we stop acting like Magneto's body count in less than the humans? Not every death he's caused has been restrained or even justified and his victims have even included other Mutants at times.

[ARkadelphia]

duplicate post

[ARkadelphia]

How So?
He didn't directly target humans or any specific people. That woulda been Genocidal. Also his EMP only affected 616.
a lil totally unlike MDay

Magneto and Wanda both used their substantial powers in a way that led to unintended negative consequences.