Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2020

[whitecrown]

The reason why he was brought back is that the amnesiac angel or NuAngel if you prefer was not an engaging character. There was nothing done with him and it was obvious how much of a place holder he was for the cancelled Remender Arc regarding the Apocalypse Crusade. Long form storytelling is rare these days, Remender should have used him after the arc.

I didn't care much for NuAngel myself even though there was probably a lot of story potential with him. He was left as a background character. Do you have more information on what Remender planned for his Apocalypse Crusade? I always figured he was done with the Apocalypse arc after the twins were defeated in Uncanny Avengers and it was time to move onto Axis.

[whitecrown]

I just liked Warren with only himself in his mind, I've also heard that CC was going to leave Warren and Betsy together and only broke them up because he was leaving to write X-treme and wasn't taking Warren with him, otherwise they would have stayed together for the long haul...

Would have preferred that over Warren and Husk as a couple by far. But I can understand Claremont's reasoning if that's true. She was killed off so early on anyway that even if they were still together, it really wouldn't have mattered.

[whitecrown]

Probably not in recent years. His most significant interaction tends to be Psylocke as she's been used to fix his mind during most of these Archangel internal conflict. And thats a shame bc he had plenty of meaningful relationships with other X-men in the 90s and 00s

Agreed, it didn't help either character during the last few years. And Warren unfortunately has faded into the background compared to Jean, Bobby, Hank, and Scott.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Would have preferred that over Warren and Husk as a couple by far. But I can understand Claremont's reasoning if that's true. She was killed off so early on anyway that even if they were still together, it really wouldn't have mattered.

Well if he hadn't left to write X-treme then I doubt that Betsy would have been killed so there's that...Warren has been shortchanged lately due to Scott's push and then Bobby being gay and Beast going dark...so Warren got relegated to the background and just ignored for far to long...he should be leading his own team, with Betsy co leading...

[whitecrown]

Well if he hadn't left to write X-treme then I doubt that Betsy would have been killed so there's that...Warren has been shortchanged lately due to Scott's push and then Bobby being gay and Beast going dark...so Warren got relegated to the background and just ignored for far to long...he should be leading his own team, with Betsy co leading...

Betsy was killed because Claremont planned on "killing" her so he could revive her in her British body. Unfortunately in that time, Marvel meant the dead to remain dead so he wasn't able to bring her back until later.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Kind of makes me think that then he shouldn't have killed her off in the first place unless that dead means dead thing came after it was to late...then again I quit reading when CC took over as to me most of the characters became mostly unrecognizeable to me...and Warren hasn't had a good run in years sadly...

[whitecrown]

Kind of makes me think that then he shouldn't have killed her off in the first place unless that dead means dead thing came after it was to late...then again I quit reading when CC took over as to me most of the characters became mostly unrecognizeable to me...and Warren hasn't had a good run in years sadly...

Yeah, I never understood why CC would do that either. My guess is he thought that since Betsy would return in her original body, this wouldn't count as a permanent death but editorial didn't see it that way. Tbh, I prefer CC's characterizations over most of the writers who have come after him.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I became a fan of many of my favorite characters during Nicieza's run in the X-books, yeah he wasn't perfect but there it is, he's my favorite X-writer...and recently it's pretty clear that Marvel had no ideas for Betsy past putting her back in an English body, to the point where they just shouldn't have bothered and left well enough alone imho...CC does have a history of just ignoring anything that other writers have done that he doesn't like and he often seems to only like X-couples that he himself put together...

[Thievery]

Seeing those images why hasn't Warren been part of a Noir inspired film or urban fantasy comic title? It would fit him very well!

Me too. Great minds think alike.

And the way she was killed off was pretty terrible as well. She disappears for years, since the Mutant Massacre all the way to right before Inferno and when she's finally found again, she's already dead. I'm glad UXM 306 sorta gave her a goodbye since her death was so unceremonious.

.

I also didn't like that Candy was killed.

But, I didn't like the way that UXM 306 gave Candy and Warren a somewhat happy goodbye. If your going to kill Candy, then I like the original story, and way that Archangel screwed up and couldn't save Candy from Hodge. It made Angel feel like he was an even bigger loser.

I also liked Warren and Jean, especially in those early issues of X-Factor. Its too bad that they never became a couple in any alternate reality

I thought that you had given up on Warren/Jean when Cyclops returned.
Nothing wrong if you still prefer Warren/Jean. We all have a right to our opinions.

[tangent]



Another thing I wondered is if Warren ever had any reaction to his 'best friend' Bobby coming out. The two pretty much moved from X-Men to Champions to Defenders together, and then back to X-Factor and X-Men. In all that time, I feel like Warren kind of had to have known something was up (even if nothing was, 'cause, continuity change!), and yet chose to let Bobby live whatever life he was comfortable with (unlike teen Jean). There's possible drama to be mined there, knowing, not-knowing, being too comfortable with 'the way things were' to shake things up and talk about uncomfortable stuff, etc. It could provide some insight as to Warren's character. Did he say nothing for so long because he didn't want to risk losing the only friend he had? Did he wonder if Bobby only hung out with him because he was eye-candy? (As opposed to that other reason why people would hang out with him, because he was stinking rich!)

In the Iceman monthly comic, it was revealed that teen Angel had to tell adult Angel that Bobby was attracted to him. So, it appears that Angel was oblivious to the way that Iceman found Angel attractive. Warren may have also been one of the X-Men that didn't realize that Bobby is gay.

I actually liked the addition of a dual psyche that Warren is combating with internally because I found it more interesting than a regression to the 90s where he's completely Archangel all the time. I forgot about Fantomex and Betsy though lol. That didn't bother me as much as other fans but it certainly did feel like a slap in the face to Warren/Betsy shippers. Ironically enough, Claremont's original plan was to pair up Neal with Jean now that Jean was widowed. I'm not sure why he didn't go through with that except maybe when he swapped Jean and Betsy's powers, he decided to swap love interests as well lol. Claremont was never a big fan of Warren and apparent

I liked the dual psyches for Angel/Archangel at first. The problem for me, was that that the dual psyches led to a never ending cycle of stories where Psylocke was forced to help Archangel deal with his multiple psyche issues.

Probably not in recent years. His most significant interaction tends to be Psylocke as she's been used to fix his mind during most of these Archangel internal conflict. And thats a shame bc he had plenty of meaningful relationships with other X-men in the 90s and 00s




Bendis used him. He had that romance with Laura and the Black Vortex stuff. Hopeless and Bunn however didnt seem to have much use for him. I would say he was neck and neck with Bobby though. The only thing of consequences that happened to him was that he was revealed to be gay but that happened at the very end of the Bendis run and he wasnt able to do anything with him. Hopeless gave him a boyfriend towards the end with the IvX stuff. He was also a background character for Bunn

I wouldn't mind Psylocke appearing frequently in Warren's stories if Warren was allowed to interact with other X-Men.

Hopeless tried to use teen Angel. He tried to use the Black Vortex powers to tell a story of how they were affecting teen Angel's mind and relationship with Laura. The story wasn't popular with readers who post online but that doesn't mean that Hopeless didn't try. And, from what I gather from talking to readers who don't post online the Laura/teen Angel relationship was more popular than CBR members make it out to be.

We don't know what stories about teen Angel that Bunn would have tried because X-Men bleu seamed to be hijacked by editors.

I became a fan of many of my favorite characters during Nicieza's run in the X-books, yeah he wasn't perfect but there it is, he's my favorite X-writer...and recently it's pretty clear that Marvel had no ideas for Betsy past putting her back in an English body, to the point where they just shouldn't have bothered and left well enough alone imho...CC does have a history of just ignoring anything that other writers have done that he doesn't like and he often seems to only like X-couples that he himself put together...

I think that Nicieza is one of the best writers that the X-Men have had. His X-Force and monthly Gambit series were also great.

[whitecrown]

I became a fan of many of my favorite characters during Nicieza's run in the X-books, yeah he wasn't perfect but there it is, he's my favorite X-writer...and recently it's pretty clear that Marvel had no ideas for Betsy past putting her back in an English body, to the point where they just shouldn't have bothered and left well enough alone imho...CC does have a history of just ignoring anything that other writers have done that he doesn't like and he often seems to only like X-couples that he himself put together...

I don't hate him like others do but he's responsible for most of what caused Betsy to just be wallpaper and only known for her costume and body in the 90s. And the whole Kwannon mix-up is his fault entirely.

I actually wouldn't say that's true about Claremont with X-Couples. He put Scott and Jean together but he lost interest in them after the Maddie debacle and wanted Jean and Logan to be a couple. To the point that he retconned Jean into loving Logan back with Classic X-Men and Inferno. Rogue and Gambit were never supposed to be a couple under his pen. He always planned Kitty and Gambit to be a couple but despite this, he still kept Rogue and Gambit together in X-Treme X-Men and X-Men: The End. Warren was just a character that he doesn't seem like he's ever been very fond of (although certainly more than Bobby) and Betsy was always one of his favorites so I can see why the pairing wouldn't appeal to him.

[whitecrown]

I also didn't like that Candy was killed.

But, I didn't like the way that UXM 306 gave Candy and Warren a somewhat happy goodbye. If your going to kill Candy, then I like the original story, and way that Archangel screwed up and couldn't save Candy from Hodge. It made Angel feel like he was an even bigger loser.


I thought that you had given up on Warren/Jean when Cyclops returned.
Nothing wrong if you still prefer Warren/Jean. We all have a right to our opinions.


I liked the dual psyches for Angel/Archangel at first. The problem for me, was that that the dual psyches led to a never ending cycle of stories where Psylocke was forced to help Archangel deal with his multiple psyche issues.

I didn't even realize there was a demand to see Candy again and get closure on her death. Maybe they felt it was the only untapped storyline for Warren they could think of at the time. Or maybe they needed to foreshadow the Phalanx storyline.

Sometimes I wonder what the X-Men's direction would have been if Scott and Jean hadn't reunited in X-Factor and instead they did move on, Scott back with Maddie and Jean with Warren. Since at this point, Claremont hadn't retconned her feelings for Logan yet so Warren was really her only other love interest, short of bringing back Ted Roberts.

I agree, the past decade has just been grappling with Warren's psyche issues and it's gotten old quick. It's a bit like Jean's Phoenix storyline now with every writer trying to capture that again when the moment is over.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Warren's psyche issues have become like Jean and the Phoenix or Betsy and her body issues or Rogue and not being able to touch, it's often a crutch for writers to go back to seemingly when something new evades them...well I think that part of the reason that Warren never noticed that Bobby was attracted to him was partially because for most of both characters time in comics Bobby wasn't attracted to him, then it all got retconned in that he was...as for Nicieza I actually got into the X-Men really when Revanche first showed up and I never really saw Betsy as just the Asian body from day one and understood mostly the whole body change with Kwannon vs Betsy thing so I never grew to hate it like others...if anything I quickly grew to hate the recent turning Warren back into Archangel more with how it happened and then his two psyche things, leaving alone the whole Paige problem...and how she told him that she'd talked to Betsy in the afterlife thing, as we never found out if that actually happened or not, and if it did then does Betsy remember it...

[Izanami]

I didn't care much for NuAngel myself even though there was probably a lot of story potential with him. He was left as a background character. Do you have more information on what Remender planned for his Apocalypse Crusade? I always figured he was done with the Apocalypse arc after the twins were defeated in Uncanny Avengers and it was time to move onto Axis.

Ye ask and ye shall receive.

So the confirmation came from Reddit which you can check out here. I will also post the images and the hint that Jason Aaron also gave in issue 29 of Wolverine and the X-Men.

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comme...ys_to_life_by/

Ended Storyline.jpg

and here is the issue that is referenced

Issue 29.jpg

[MechaJeanix]

My brother and I debate Angel sometimes. He likes him as he was originally - with his feathered wings. I prefer him in the Archangel look - blue skin and metal wings that shoot knives. I do like it best when he can switch between the two versions.

I agree that it is tedious the amount of times he loses control of the Archangel persona and I agree it is like when they always go back to Dark Phoenix with Jean. I like both Warren and Jean as Archangel and Phoenix but when they have them out of control or "bad" it is not good for them and it is recycling old stories.

Archangel should be in control of his metal winged version, just like Jean should have stayed Phoenix and been in control, but writers can't help but have them go "dark".

I am very excited for the X-men Empyre mini because of Warren. I want to see what role he has to play in this new era and I wish he would be featured regularly in a book. He could work well on X-force, X-factor, Marauders or Hellions imo. Someone just needs to give him a purpose.

[whitecrown]

Ye ask and ye shall receive.

So the confirmation came from Reddit which you can check out here. I will also post the images and the hint that Jason Aaron also gave in issue 29 of Wolverine and the X-Men.

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comme...ys_to_life_by/

Ended Storyline.jpg

and here is the issue that is referenced

Issue 29.jpg

Thank you so much! It sounds like he had a plan to work on Apocalypse Crusade even before Uncanny Avengers and it's a shame he left Marvel shortly afterwards and wasn't able to wrap up the story. I want to know what he would have done with the original Apocalypse and Warren.