DC is planning on fixing their timeline!

[Aahz]

I lokked it up the best example I could find was Deathstroke Annual #1 from 1992 where Dick states that no member of the Titans is older than 21.

Then there is a newspaper Article in "New Titans Annual #5" (1989) it is said that Nightwing is 21, but it is hard tell if you can take that serious.

And New Titans #71 also kind of implies that he is 21.

To me it looks more like this Action Comics issues was the outlier, especially since it had to be happen more than 2 years after COIE, for Dick to be 22. And doesn't really fit into the timeline in universe.

[Tzigone]

I lokked it up the best example I could find was Deathstroke Annual #1 from 1992 where Dick states that no member of the Titans is older than 21.

Then there is a newspaper Article in "New Titans Annual #5" (1989) it is said that Nightwing is 21, but it is hard tell if you can take that serious.

And New Titans #71 also kind of implies that he is 21.

To me it looks more like this Action Comics issues was the outlier, especially since it had to be happen more than 2 years after COIE, for Dick to be 22. And doesn't really fit into the timeline in universe.

I agree that's the outlier (most especially since Lian doesn't look any older to me than she did when Roy first saw her, which I think was the same issue that Jason called Dick 20 in)? But do we count the 22 as an outlier or the Dick and Roy as same as outlier. How often do we hear Roy's age over the years?

Nightwing 21 in 1992 is a iffier one. Depends on if have Tim and Jason closer in age (as I think was originally intended, as he was in 7th grade in the 1988 annual) or have Jason die at 15 (as was later stated), and Tim introduced at 13. If Jason died at 15, then Dick was already 22 then (if Jason was 12 when introduced), since he was said to be 19 when Jason was introduced post-COIE. But if you think Jason died at 13, and was basically the same age as Tim, then Dick is 20/21 when Tim is introduced, and 21 works well enough for 1992.

Lian appears to be at lest in kindergarten in Titans 19 (Jan 2010) - there's school busses and older kids with books there, too. So if she's 5, then we can say Dick should be at least 24 by then? Tim turned 16 in 2003, so Dick would have been 23 by then.

Robert Long will throw you off if you try to use him, as he aged up to three before he died (1997), but was only born in 1992 and Tim and others did not age along with him, despite no explicit speed-aging. Garden-variety soap opera aging, I guess. Anyway, then when he showed up later as a Black Lantern, I think he was an infant again, but haven't read it, but only seen random panels, so am unsure.

[Shamrock Holmes]

Given that the Deathstroke and Titans issues were written by Marv Wolfmann, who though he didn't get it right all the time (for instance, IIRC he gave three contradictory datapoints for Dick's age in the same issue once), was the regular writer for those titles so might be expected to get it right at least in the broadstrokes, whereas the Action Comics issue was written by Peter David, who seems to have been more of a "pinch hitter" floating around various books as needed, I'd be more inclined to dismiss the Action Comics reference first.

[Tzigone]

Given that the Deathstroke and Titans issues were written by Marv Wolfmann, who though he didn't get it right all the time (for instance, IIRC he gave three contradictory datapoints for Dick's age in the same issue once), was the regular writer for those titles so might be expected to get it right at least in the broadstrokes, whereas the Action Comics issue was written by Peter David, who seems to have been more of a "pinch hitter" floating around various books as needed, I'd be more inclined to dismiss the Action Comics reference first.

The lead story in that Action Comics (Green Lantern) was written by Peter David. The Nightwing Story ("The Cheshire Contract") was written by Marv Wolfman. Problem may be on him not matter what.
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Though we have other info (I know, I know, but I enjoy attempting to chronologize, no matter how hopeless). In Batman 416 (events supposedly happening "one year ago" - and it was only 8 issues ago we saw it happen), Dick says he was 19 when fired, making him at last 20 in the present tense. February of 1988 issue. Which works pretty well with Jason calling him 20 in one of the issues, I think. And Jason would be 13, I guess (I've heard he was established as 12 when he took the role). Not Wolfman, but it times out with some of the NTT stuff.

Edit: Can I hear more about the three contradictory datapoints in one issue - I love that stuff.

Also, I think it was Nightwing Year One that said Dick was 21 in 2007, but am not sure.

[Aahz]

Jason die at 15 (as was later stated)

That was never stated in a comic, that's from a book called the Batman Files.

[Tzigone]

That was never stated in a comic, that's from a book called the Batman Files.

Okay, but wasn't it said that Jason would be Cass's age and Cass stated to be two years older than Tim? Or was that not from a comic, either? I know Tim was 13 when he seeks out Dick is in the comic - read that one.

[Shamrock Holmes]

The lead story in that Action Comics (Green Lantern) was written by Peter David. The Nightwing Story ("The Cheshire Contract") was written by Marv Wolfman. Problem may be on him not matter what.

Rats!

Well it was worth a try.

Edit: Can I hear more about the three contradictory datapoints in one issue - I love that stuff.

That's the main contradiction to the "bulk" of the evidence...

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4182998

Also, I think it was Nightwing Year One that said Dick was 21 in 2007, but am not sure.

I'm not even sure that the Guide to the DCU (2000) would have supported that (it gives a ten-year gap between his debut and 1999-2000 era titles, there's maybe 5 years after that up to 2007 (circa 52).

[Aahz]

Okay, but wasn't it said that Jason would be Cass's age and Cass stated to be two years older than Tim? Or was that not from a comic, either? I know Tim was 13 when he seeks out Dick is in the comic - read that one.

At this point Jason was made 2 years older than Tim (he had his 18th Birthday around the time Tim had his 16th). But that just doesn't really line up if you look at the Time line from the 80s.

New Titans #71 from 1990 is (if I understood it correctly) only 3 Years after the New Teen Titans were founded, it is published in the same month as Tim finished his Training with Bruce.
Since Jason became Robin a while after the Titans were founded, and Tims training lasted 6 month, that limits Jasons time as Robin to roughly years. If he was 12 when he became Robin (which is canon afaik) he couldn#t have been 15 when he died.

I think the writers never really did the research, and on top of it there was the problem that they slowed Tims ageing down. IIRC it was said that Cassandra was 16 during No Man's Land, and Tim was 15 at that time. Later during Fugative Cassandra was 17 while Tim was still only 15...

[Tzigone]

[quot]I think the writers never really did the research, and on top of it there was the problem that they slowed Tims ageing down. IIRC it was said that Cassandra was 16 during No Man's Land, and Tim was 15 at that time. Later during Fugative Cassandra was 17 while Tim was still only 15... [/quote]My sister and tend to refer to Tim's 15th year as "Tim's endless year" and Dick's year at college as "Dick's endless year" - completely inaccurate since both ended, of course, just what we do.

At this point Jason was made 2 years older than Tim (he had his 18th Birthday around the time Tim had his 16th). But that just doesn't really line up if you look at the Time line from the 80s.

I agree. They absolutely conflict. Sometimes you just have to pick one or split the difference or pick a third option or something. For me, the gap between Dick and Jason is more important what whatever the gap is between Jason and Tim. It's important to me that Dick already be grown when he leaves home, and when he takes the role as Nightwing, and that Jason still be a kid then. I really hate the setup where Jason is made a peer of Dick's rather than peer of Tim's (happens all the time in fanfic with compressed ages). As you may imagine, I'm not fond of the original New 52 timeline at all. But I also don't know what the latest continuity regarding that is, either, since I know we've reverted to kid!Dick in Bruce's care, and the timeline has been uncompressed a bit, and Tim's old backstory has been mentioned and so forth.

[Aahz]

My sister and tend to refer to Tim's 15th year as "Tim's endless year" and Dick's year at college as "Dick's endless year" - completely inaccurate since both ended, of course, just what we do.

I think Dick had probably an even longer period where didn't age (and was roughly 15), from roughly the mid 40s to the mid 60s.

[Tzigone]

I think Dick had probably an even longer period where didn't age (and was roughly 15), from roughly the mid 40s to the mid 60s.

Fair enough. I'd been trying to pin down when Dick turned 15, but so far had only gotten it down to "at least by mid-50s" so didn't realize it was as long as it was. But that was the golden and silver ages where, if you'll forgive me for the turn of phrase, less happened. I mean, in other hero's lives. Maybe fewer hero debuts in that era (though there were the silver agers, so maybe not), but definitely in terms of marriages/LTRs, deaths, babies born, cities destroyed, and life-altering events for other characters. So, to me, if I'm making a timeline, there are more events "worthy of being included" in Tim's year or Dick's college year than there are in what I thought was Dick's 15th year (like I said, I hadn't been able to track down exactly where it started or ended).

[Aahz]

Fair enough. I'd been trying to pin down when Dick turned 15, but so far had only gotten it down to "at least by mid-50s" so didn't realize it was as long as it was.

The first direct evidence for him being 15 I know is Star Spangled Comics #122 from 1951.

But imo he was probably that age already when he his solo stories in Star Spangled Comics stared, and he was at least shown to be in high school quite early in those stories (Spangled Comics #122, 1947), and didn't really visibly age until at least the mid 60s.

In later in "Last Days of the Justice Society of America" it was retonned that the Earth Dick was born in 1928, if you go by the he would have turned 15 in 1943...

[Shamrock Holmes]

Given that he's distinguished himself enough as a lawyer to be appointed as an ambassdor in the late seventies, then it's clear that considerable time passed, even if they didn't physically age him much (though to be fair, physically fit people often don't age all that much between late 20s and their 40s or 50s), and 47-52 doesn't seem unreasonable for an ambassdor (though I'd be fine with 43-47 based on him being 8 not 12 at debut as the LDotJSA Special suggests)

[Aahz]

Given that he's distinguished himself enough as a lawyer to be appointed as an ambassdor in the late seventies, then it's clear that considerable time passed, even if they didn't physically age him much (though to be fair, physically fit people often don't age all that much between late 20s and their 40s or 50s), and 47-52 doesn't seem unreasonable for an ambassdor (though I'd be fine with 43-47 based on him being 8 not 12 at debut as the LDotJSA Special suggests)

I know that lots of people for some reason like the Idea of him strating to be Robin at age 8.
But that imo makes no sense in any continuity, and there is no story with him as Robin where he is clearly that young. Even in the Golden Age Birthday story that people like to bring up it is not 100% clear, and there are imo stories published around the same time that indicate he is older.

[Tzigone]

I know that lots of people for some reason like the Idea of him strating to be Robin at age 8.
But that imo makes no sense in any continuity, and there is no story with him as Robin where he is clearly that young. Even in the Golden Age Birthday story that people like to bring up it is not 100% clear, and there are imo stories published around the same time that indicate he is older.

I agree with you. He did not look or act that young. Neither did Roy (who I have recently heard also had an age 8 start referenced in at least one comic). I know an age 8 start was referenced later (in NTT and then in Grayson's run on Nightwing), too, but it doesn't work for the original to me. Especially since we saw Robin working undercover as a steward in Batman #1.

Really, the youngest-seeming sidekick was Aqualad when he was introduced. He seemed very young. I guess he grew up for Teen Titans? Unsure - haven't read that many Aquaman stories of the era. Poor kid may not have even gotten a name until the mid 1980s. Someone said Tales of Teen Titans 45. I know he was still referred to as unnamed in the mid 1970s. I seem to recall, but wouldn't swear to it, him looking very young still in Aquaman stories for just a bit even after he joined Titans (though may just be thinking of after trio teamup). And his hair was totally different - just sayin'.