All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[aja_christopher]

You were in an echo chamber. It got more popular once he left office. His entire term it was an albatross around his neck that polled negatively and the Republican Party ran against to gain a majority in Congress and an abundance of data backs this up. This doesn't meanit was a bad policy, it means they couldn't see it well.

The most important thing is that it helped millions of people get health insurance -- it's just convenient to ignore that fact when your candidate doesn't have any similarly beneficial legislation to run on in comparison.

You'll notice that a lot of the Sanders campaign is about tearing others down -- especially Democrats -- as that's the only way they can assert their worth against popular "moderate" candidates like Obama and Clinton.

Democrats won the last Congressional cycle by historic margins via moderate candidates but that interferes with their narrative, so they avoid that fact.

Conversely, progressive candidates largely crashed and burned as many have no political support whatsoever in many parts of America.

The focus now is to impose Sanders on the Democratic party by claiming progressives can do better, despite providing no evidence that this is true.

[Steel Inquisitor]

That's not the point. The point is that I like Sanders policies and I don't like Biden's. The counter I keep hearing is "well Sanders won't get much done anyways. There's zero evidence Biden would fare any better. And you have no really data to point to that makes it more likely.

So it's a matter of one candidate with superior policies having a hard time passing it vs a candidate with mediocre polcies having a hard time. Pretty easy choice for me. And no you got a water'd down Obamacare without the public option that needed to be passed via reconciliation that got completely undermined by multiple courts and is becoming unaffordable and you needed a popular President and one vote shy of a supermajority to do it.

Biden isn't getting something like that done with the current Congress. Biden is also probably not going to prosecute all the criminal activities of the Trump administration either based off how his last admin went. Biden is also more to the right of Obama and has a worse voting track record. So there's no reason to think he's going to be anymore successful so I'm going to prefer the one whose policies I like better.

More importantly I think Biden's going to lose because his strength right now is based off states he can't win in a general

If it's a matter of who you like more you argument about Biden doing badly in congress is useless. Biden might be getting more done by having a stronger relationship with the party then Sanders will, they'll be fighting. Do you expect Sanders to just not do anything with congress once he's in office?

Sanders isn't going to prosecute anyone any more than Biden will, that's not something he can decide on his own.

[PwrdOn]

This is an argument against Biden, not one to lift up Sanders. What does Sanders offer that will be any different in congress? Biden isn't the only candidate with gaffes, Sanders put his foot in his mouth about Cuba during a debate. You're not disproving anything I said.

That wasn't a gaffe, Bernie said what he meant to say, you just took it the wrong way because your brain can't process that people would have anything good to say about Cuba that wasn't about cigars or beautiful women...

As for how he'd govern, obviously Bernie is more an activist than a politician at heart so his strategy would center more around grassroots organization, harnessing the same energy you see in the campaign to petition local representatives, pass ballot measures, organize marches and rallies, etc. Now, maybe the GOP has rigged the system so heavily in their favor that none of that will mean anything, but at least it'll be more effective than continually trying to compromise with Cocaine Mitch and getting your clocks cleaned time after time.

[Steel Inquisitor]

That wasn't a gaffe, Bernie said what he meant to say, you just took it the wrong way because your brain can't process that people would have anything good to say about Cuba that wasn't about cigars or beautiful women...

As for how he'd govern, obviously Bernie is more an activist than a politician at heart so his strategy would center more around grassroots organization, harnessing the same energy you see in the campaign to petition local representatives, pass ballot measures, organize marches and rallies, etc. Now, maybe the GOP has rigged the system so heavily in their favor that none of that will mean anything, but at least it'll be more effective than continually trying to compromise with Cocaine Mitch and getting your clocks cleaned time after time.

Its a gaffe because in the general election the media, it'd depress voting among right wing and moderate Democrats who don't like Castro. It's like praising something Bin Laden did and expecting a pat on the back from the electorate. He says that in a debate with Trump and he'll get destroyed in the media.

Sanders hasn't shown he can do that in his entire career.

[Darkspellmaster]

THIS!


LOVE IT!!! Mama Liz. And yes Aunt Amy. And Tulsi can be like Maris or Norm's wife... we hear about her a lot, but no-ones ever seen her.


Probably. She's a fighter, and I think the others dropping out could re-vitalise her base and her chances. I really like her, so here's hoping.

The DNCis Niles to Tulsi.

Well Mama Liz's commercials are airing here in Illinois now. So maybe. I can hope.

Probably because he's winning and she's fourth/fifth in the polls

Friendly reminder there were other presidents that polled low before they got a huge push later.

Longtime (x-books) lurker but just discovered this page - super excited/anxious/eager for Super Tuesday to be over!
And we don't even vote until St. Paddy's in Illinois.

We don't bite too hard in here. It's way more civilized than at other boards I've seen and the other place I go to tends to have it way worse in how people wont listen.

Yeah, given how Chicago will be that weekend, I hope people will be sober enough to get out there.

Thread got unreadable over the last 3 days. This party isn’t going to unite

Knight, I would think that most will unite. The problem was that 2016 had Republicans spending years making the water toxic for Clinton and they're trying to do that with AOC. Better for the fighting and arguing in the primaries than later in the main.

I'm more worried that the cheeto will try to block the election by using the Novel virus as an excuse.

Do I prefer TOS Klingons or TNG Borg?

Oh can I throw in the DS9 Dominons?

If Bernie won, which is very unlikely, he would spend 4 years as an accomplish-nothing president, after which his movement would be history. Nothing for the DNC to worry about. If you honestly think they care more about keeping Bernie from power than freeing children from concentration camps and keeping Trump from nominating more judges, I can only ask you politely to put down le craque pipe, as the French say.

This is something I think people are forgetting. Not gonna matter who gets the nomination if we dont take the Senate. Turtle McConnell needs to go or be made minority. That's the only way to get anything done.period.

You joke about this, but it's honestly stunning how those refugee camps have just completely dropped out of the news cycle just like the Muslim ban. Your resistance doesn't seem to be working.

Because it's not new. It's not as big. There's so much going on that it falls to the wayside in the news. That doesn't mean people are forgetting this crap he's doing.

No he'd spend 4 years undoing half of Trump's **** that would make the country better and then making his movement mainstream. That includes the children in the camps. Biden will come in and give every criminal in the Trump admin a pass just like Obama did with Bush and then try with a worse Congress and less popularity to do the same things that Obama kinda got done in half measures and got rolled back. Probably will fail to because you aren't getting the Senate. I don't care who the Dem is, it isn't happening

Bernie needs the Senate as much as Biden. See above.

With Obama the choice was half measures or nothing, the same thing Sanders will get. His policies that pass congress or will be judged unlawful by the courts will be vulernerable to getting rolled back, too.

This again. They will stranglehold anyone who tries anything.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

If it's a matter of who you like more you argument about Biden doing badly in congress is useless. Biden might be getting more done by having a stronger relationship with the party then Sanders will, they'll be fighting. Do you expect Sanders to just not do anything with congress once he's in office?

Sanders isn't going to prosecute anyone any more than Biden will, that's not something he can decide on his own.

Your making an assumption based off nothing for this. Biden was an administration that got stonewalled. Biden will not be more popular than Obama was if he were to win. Biden will not walk in with a supermajority in Congress if he wins. Biden will walk in with a less favorable Supreme Court to him if he wins. Biden will have a less unified Democratic Party than the one in 2008. Biden will be facing a stronger Republican Party than the one that got decimated by the Bush years and the financial crash.

Again there is no reason to think either will be more effective than the other because they will be walking into a mess. But if all things are equal, I prefer Sanders at least getting a minimum done at something I prefer to Biden's policy.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I’ve said this several times, and I’ll say it yet again: regardless of if Biden or Sanders wins the election, BOTH will be neutered unless the Dems recapture the Senate to prevent Midnight Mitch from blocking any and every measure they try to enact. It’s just THAT simple.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Your making an assumption based off nothing for this. Biden was an administration that got stonewalled. Biden will not be more popular than Obama was if he were to win. Biden will not walk in with a supermajority in Congress if he wins. Biden will walk in with a less favorable Supreme Court to him if he wins. Biden will have a less unified Democratic Party than the one in 2008. Biden will be facing a stronger Republican Party than the one that got decimated by the Bush years and the financial crash.

You think Sanders has a stronger partnership with the party than Sanders? Really? How will Sanders not inherit those very same obstacles?

Again there is no reason to think either will be more effective than the other because they will be walking into a mess. But if all things are equal, I prefer Sanders at least getting a minimum done at something I prefer to Biden's policy.

You cna be sure he will get the minimum done.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

You think Sanders has a stronger partnership with the party than Sanders? Really? How will Sanders not inherit those very same obstacles?



You cna be sure he will get the minimum done.

You are missing the point. I already saw Biden in an adminstration that was in a far more favorable position not get much done. You keep saying Bernie will not get much done. You have not provided evidence that the alternative will and I see none. The party in 2020 is different from the 2008 party. So unless you have some new information, we don't have a metric to say one will be more successful than the other. So at that point, why wouldn't I pick the one whose policies I prefer. It's pretty simple.

The reality is, you aren't winning the Senate. It was always a **** map for Democrats this year.

If you had some proof that Biden was going to be far more effective and get more done, then we could start having an argument if I'd prefer a far more effective president with policies I'm lukewarm on vs an ineffective president with policies I love. But we don't have that here. We have a situation where we have no real compelling reason to think effectiveness would be any different due to the political climate. So the only distinction is the policies I prefer. If Biden and Bernie only get 1% of their agenda accomplished then I prefer Bernie's 1%. If there was a case that Biden would get 25% of his agenda passed and Bernie only 1%, then we could have a real discussion. But right now there isn't one. Biden is not Obama, he's not as popular as Obama, and he's walking into a worse situation than Obama, and Obama struggled.

[AnakinFlair]

As a complete side note: I learnt today a gay man is credited with inventing the high five. HOW COOL IS THAT?


Ohhhhhh, do you think it's because of the misogynistic questions he was asking the female candidates? (or am I mistaking him with another commentator?)

No, you're not mistaken. It didn't help that he mistook candidate Jamie Harrison, whom he was interviewing at the time, with Senator Tim Scott, who was shown on a video.

While I hope he enjoys retirement, it was well passed time he did retire. To me, his show was barely watchable with him constantly interrupting/talking over guests who were just trying to answer his questions.

[Darkspellmaster]

I’ve said this several times, and I’ll say it yet again: regardless of if Biden or Sanders wins the election, BOTH will be neutered unless the Dems recapture the Senate to prevent Midnight Mitch from blocking any and every measure they try to enact. It’s just THAT simple.

EXACTLY! This narrative of who wins will end terrible if we cant control both arms of the Congress. On top of that we still have to worry about interference from outside parties. So we really should be paying attention to the Senate races.

[PwrdOn]

Its a gaffe because in the general election the media, it'd depress voting among right wing and moderate Democrats who don't like Castro. It's like praising something Bin Laden did and expecting a pat on the back from the electorate. He says that in a debate with Trump and he'll get destroyed in the media.

Sanders hasn't shown he can do that in his entire career.

I mean, words have meaning, you can't just go around declaring statements as gaffes just because you didn't like what he said. The thing is that because Bernie is, you know, a honest person and not some perpetual liar always trying to pander to this or that demographic, there's very little chance of the truth accidentally slipping out like it often does with the likes of Biden or Bloomberg. And how exactly is Castro on the same level as Bin Laden? Unless I'm missing something, Castro never killed any Americans, actually it was us who supported the dictator he overthrew, us who tried to invade and take over his country, us who are still operating a goddamn torture camp on Cuban soil. Explain to me what exactly Cuba did that was so bad that they deserve this reputation?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

EXACTLY! This narrative of who wins will end terrible if we cant control both arms of the Congress. On top of that we still have to worry about interference from outside parties. So we really should be paying attention to the Senate races.

If everything was on the up and up, the Democrats were still unlikely to win the Senate. It was always going to be a rough go.

People should realize that Trump is an incumbant who didn't run a vicious primary who has and likely will maintain a very strong economy going in.

I get that it's Trump and he's a vile human being, but this was always going to be a difficult election

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Something I saw on Twitter:

“If Biden has a good Super Tuesday showing, I can’t wait to see how many people are suddenly concerned about Burisma again.”

[numberthirty]

Ahhhhhhh I see. Okay so B was against Sander's using their song, and he was 'fired' by A and C who are pro-Sanders, but ultimately it was more the final straw rather than a true disagreement of political views?

That seems like the most sensible version of it, to me.

That said, C(Professor Griff) might not actually be a part of the band at the Sanders/Public Enemy rally. It's just that he laid out the same version as Chuck of Flavor's issues that created problems in the band a few years back.

There's also that Flavor sued the band over money a couple of years back. That it's strictly Sanders driving some sort of an ideological wedge just gets less and less likely as you look at the individual pieces that make up the entire picture.