Controversial Superman Opinions

[sunofdarkchild]

Krypton should not be much more than the explanation for Superman's powers. Things almost always seem to fall apart whenever anyone tries to dig into Kryptonian culture, and it makes no sense for Superman's ideal life to not include Lois, Jimmy or the Kents in any way like 'For the Man who has Everything' depicted.

Linda Danvers as written by Peter David is the only good version of Supergirl ever depicted in any medium, including the tv show. The different versions of Kara range from relatively inoffensive to awful, but have never been good.

Superman's status as the greatest hero stems from his moral authority, not his power. It is ok for other heroes to be more powerful than him, but even they should be in awe of him and look up to him even when they are stronger than him.

A big supporting cast is better than a small supporting cast. Superman is as much about how he affects the world around him as it is the man himself.

[daBronzeBomma]

No issues with any of this (where's the controversy, man! (Oh, wait, my opinion doesn't count))

OK, let's see what else I got. Let's steal-back for Supes, starting with with Icon, and add to those ideas.

- Clark's glasses should be much more than eyewear. They should have came with him in the rocket, originally as an unbreakable, unremovable necklace that Scanned the nearest lifeforms upon impact (Jon and Martha) and reimaged Kal's skin, hair and face to match theirs). When Clark finally yanked it off as a pre-teen, his earthly Visage reverted back to his original Kryptonian form (for example: unearthly blue hair, unearthly pink skin, and glowing all-blue eyes). He freaks out. That's when his folks finally tell him the whole story. Clark then re-fashions the broken necklace into a pair of eyeglasses to keep his Terrestrial appearance. This also puts him ahead of any face-scanning software like Facebook that could otherwise out him very easily.

Also the necklace/eyeglasses completely mask Kal's astoundingly high Energy signature and biorhythms, so that, while as Clark, Kal always avoids any Earthly detection by the government or other more nefarious parties.

[Ascended]

I can certanly see the "Nigthmare of Tomorrow" angle, in some stories, but not enought IMO. Althought honestly, DC usually ignore the "Man of Tomorrow" angle most of the time.

Indeed. Im not saying Brainiac is a well developed villain or that he even makes sense. He's been rebooted and had too many variations for any sort of easy cohesion. But the theme is there, and the theme is worthwhile.

I don't like Matrix, could this mean something?

That you have questionable taste in movies? Hell man I cant even say that, since the films just got worse the longer they went on.

[Jim Kelly]

Eradicator, Hank Henshaw, Matrix are confusing messes for me. They all started out as one thing and then were put through the mill to become another thing. I remember some things with great clarity, but my brain never made the space for storing all the details on these characters--or more likely my retrieval system isn't working and I have a hard accessing those memories. So whenever one of them is mentioned, I waste too much time trying to remember what they were about.

[darkseidpwns]

The New 52 was a dud from day one and no amount of good writing could have saved it, if your foundation is non existent then it doesn't matter what you make at the top. The New 52 Superman was mixture of ill defined reactionary stunts to generate the impression that Superman wasn't your grand pa's superhero.

Grant Morrison's run is not a high point of the New 52 , Morrison is the high point of Morrison.

Superman/Wonder Woman romance is bad, like atrocious to the point of being shameful. Here I'm not talking personal preferences, even the writers refused to believe in it save Lobdell. It was an editorial product through and through, thank Berganza for that fan service. The SM/WW ship fans beloved Soule even wrote an issue where he insinuated that Batman knew Supes better than Diana ever did, Pak wrote the Superman's Joker story with Xa-Du that made out Batman to be the most important person in Superman's life but had no mention of Diana. There is no point on forcing a concept if your own employees refuse to believe in it.

[Superfan90]

I'm not a long-term Superman/Wonder Woman shipper, not am I a fan of the Wonder Woman character. however, I have said this is a matter of opinions (and yes I am aware this very thread consists entirely of opinions).



May I ask which stories have you read featuring the Nu52 version of Superman?

Every single one of them?

[Netherman14]

Which arcs exactly? He'l on Earth? the Grant Morrison run? the Greg Pak run?

[Slaughter]

The Electric Superman uniform/containment suit is quite cool but strangely it always looks better on women.

Eradicator, Hank Henshaw, Matrix are confusing messes for me.

Eradicator: Read the Eradicator mini-series from the 90s. I think of it as a kryptonian motherbox with its own agenda. You know, I just realized the Eradicator-Motherbox connection, some writer will no doubt make the connection eventually (just like during Darkseid War we got a Green Lantern Ring - Motherbox parallel) - black box magitech of the gods way beyond us.

The thing that sets the Eradicator apart from the Mother Box is that the Eradicator absorbs people's memories and identities (recently we saw it pretty much eats souls too). I think it was a learning mechanism. Imagine a Mother Box AI that literally takes info from the brains of everyone who stays around it. I don't think even Brainiac can do that (he needs a material connection first, the Eradicator's does it like it got wi-fi on brains and all networks are open).

So, unlike a Mother Box, the Eradicator is a character, with its own objectives, goals and methods. And they can change to fit the situation. It can even feel, and adopt organic or quasi-organic bodies for itself fashioned from energy-to-matter conversion. Or possess bodies.

So advanced it is, even Superman can't get rid of the damn thing. He threw it into the sun once, and it just came back! (Hank Henshaw was the only one who ended up losing in that one)

Hank Henshaw: DC''s Reed Richards gone wrong and crazy turned into Living Eletromagnetic Consciousness turned into impostor Cyborg-Superman after going crazy in space and blaming Superman for everything he lost (to be fair, it IS Superman's fault) turned into crazy murderous suicidal nihilist who desires death but cannot find it (because he's a Living Electromagnetic Consciousness, just one inside a cyborg clone of Kal-El).

Of all the "Evil Supermen", he's my hands-down favorite.

Matrix: Lex Luthor's silver age experiment in creating protoplasm life turned successful. Protoplasm shapeshifter and chameleon doppelganger with identity issues who learned to be human. Then fused with one to save her life. Survivor of a doomed (Pocket) planet.

(you know, one funny fact is that everyone pretty much ignored ever since that Matrix is pretty much Lana Lang/Lana's daughter in DNA)

[Superfan90]

Which arcs exactly? He'l on Earth? the Grant Morrison run? the Greg Pak run?

Like I said, every single one of them.

[adkal]

OK, let's see what else I got. Let's steal-back for Supes, starting with with Icon, and add to those ideas.

- Clark's glasses should be much more than eyewear. They should have came with him in the rocket, originally as an unbreakable, unremovable necklace that Scanned the nearest lifeforms upon impact (Jon and Martha) and reimaged Kal's skin, hair and face to match theirs). When Clark finally yanked it off as a pre-teen, his earthly Visage reverted back to his original Kryptonian form (for example: unearthly blue hair, unearthly pink skin, and glowing all-blue eyes). He freaks out. That's when his folks finally tell him the whole story. Clark then re-fashions the broken necklace into a pair of eyeglasses to keep his Terrestrial appearance. This also puts him ahead of any face-scanning software like Facebook that could otherwise out him very easily.

Okay, now we're heading to 'controversial'

But, does this mean he appears with 'unearthly blue hair, unearthly pink skin, and glowing all-blue eyes' as Superman? If so, wouldn't that create a distancing similar to J'onn's? If not, does that mean he doesn't have to wear the 'glasses' for the effect(s) to work and just have them with him?

Also the necklace/eyeglasses completely mask Kal's astoundingly high Energy signature and biorhythms, so that, while as Clark, Kal always avoids any Earthly detection by the government or other more nefarious parties.

You're talking about Batman, right?

[adkal]

Eradicator: Read the Eradicator mini-series from the 90s. I think of it as a kryptonian motherbox with its own agenda. You know, I just realized the Eradicator-Motherbox connection, some writer will no doubt make the connection eventually (just like during Darkseid War we got a Green Lantern Ring - Motherbox parallel) - black box magitech of the gods way beyond us.

The thing that sets the Eradicator apart from the Mother Box is that the Eradicator absorbs people's memories and identities (recently we saw it pretty much eats souls too). I think it was a learning mechanism. Imagine a Mother Box AI that literally takes info from the brains of everyone who stays around it. I don't think even Brainiac can do that (he needs a material connection first, the Eradicator's does it like it got wi-fi on brains and all networks are open).

I've often thought that the 'sunstone' (or whatever) that Jor leaves for Kal is, for lack of a better description, Jor (and Lara). That they're items that have been in their possession from birth and have absorbed all their experiences over time and, in essence, are them in a different form. Their responses, observations, advice etc aren't pre-recorded (Donner-verse) but are (more rather than less) the responses etc Jor and Lara would have made.

Hank Henshaw: DC''s Reed Richards gone wrong and crazy turned into Living Eletromagnetic Consciousness turned into impostor Cyborg-Superman after going crazy in space and blaming Superman for everything he lost (to be fair, it IS Superman's fault) turned into crazy murderous suicidal nihilist who desires death but cannot find it (because he's a Living Electromagnetic Consciousness, just one inside a cyborg clone of Kal-El).

How was it Superman's fault?

Of all the "Evil Supermen", he's my hands-down favorite.

And then those darn Lanterns took him.

Matrix: Lex Luthor's silver age experiment in creating protoplasm life turned successful. Protoplasm shapeshifter and chameleon doppelganger with identity issues who learned to be human. Then fused with one to save her life. Survivor of a doomed (Pocket) planet.

(you know, one funny fact is that everyone pretty much ignored ever since that Matrix is pretty much Lana Lang/Lana's daughter in DNA)

Honestly, I've often wondered why they never went anywhere with that.

[Korath]

Superman shouldn't be an immortal sun god. The strongest hero, yes, but not an immortal being. The man lost his planet, let him live and die with the ones he loves, not watch them wither while remaining unchanged.

[Superlad93]

-I don't think all Kryptonians are naturally immortal with or without the sun. That's always rubbed me the wrong way. Long lived as hell? You bet, but immortal seems a little iffy to me.

-I don't think Kryptonians should be be decedents of gods or whatever else people are trying to come up with to make Kryptonians this race of "chosen ones." I think they're just a really really advanced human-like race, and their achievements make them well known throughout a large bit of the galaxy. If they're "chosen ones" then it hurts the metaphor of their achievements being well within humanities reach if we only dig deep and get over themselves. Both All Star and American Alien have it write. We're all in this together, and we're all just tiny aliens clinging to rocks.

-I think Supergirl should be more book smart than Superman. That's not to say Superman is a fool or whatever. He's still super clever/smart and is very a talented engineer, but Kara lived on Krypton for 16 years, and her brain has only been boosted in processing power since she got to Earth.

-I think the reason Kryptonians get such a substantial boost in power and ability depending on the sun is because of simple cosmic happenstance. I'm a firm believer in the "photonucleic effect" and the absurdity of it http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Photonucleic_Effect

-I think Clark should actively be working on the case files of all of the Kryptonian Phantom Zone inmates. I think he should set the possibility of parole for some inmates. I also think he should scheduled telepathic one on one meetings with each inmate to correctly evaluate. I think Clark should be deeply conflicted with Jor-El inventing the projector, and it should give him a sobering look at his second culture. I also think Clark should come into conflict with a number of JL members, and even Lois to a degree on his choices with the PZ criminals.

-In contrast to my top opinion, I think Superman through some other means (DC 1 million sees him travel all of creation, and come back presumably with his immortality) can become basically immortal or just more long lived than the already astonishingly long life he would normally have. TAKE NOTE: I don't think his immortality should come from something already inherent to him or the universe keeping him alive of some sh!t. IF he were to be immortal, it would be because of some ridiculous and harrowing adventure he saw his way through. He's not "the chosen one" or inherently special outside of just being a fantastic person. He's just a very nice guy who happens to have the strangest life possible.

[spirit2011]

I'm not sure when exactly it aired, I've only found these clips of the episode on YouTube. There are more on the SM/WW Appreciation Thread. Looks like it's a pretty hilarious episode.

More like hilarious out of character moments for everyone on-screen and off-screen. No need to crap on Lois and Steve

-I don't think all Kryptonians are naturally immortal with or without the sun. That's always rubbed me the wrong way. Long lived as hell? You bet, but immortal seems a little iffy to me.

-I don't think Kryptonians should be be decedents of gods or whatever else people are trying to come up with to make Kryptonians this race of "chosen ones." I think they're just a really really advanced human-like race, and their achievements make them well known throughout a large bit of the galaxy. If they're "chosen ones" then it hurts the metaphor of their achievements being well within humanities reach if we only dig deep and get over themselves. Both All Star and American Alien have it write. We're all in this together, and we're all just tiny aliens clinging to rocks.

-I think Supergirl should be more book smart than Superman. That's not to say Superman is a fool or whatever. He's still super clever/smart and is very a talented engineer, but Kara lived on Krypton for 16 years, and her brain has only been boosted in processing power since she got to Earth.

-I think the reason Kryptonians get such a substantial boost in power and ability depending on the sun is because of simple cosmic happenstance. I'm a firm believer in the "photonucleic effect" and the absurdity of it http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Photonucleic_Effect

-I think Clark should actively be working on the case files of all of the Kryptonian Phantom Zone inmates. I think he should set the possibility of parole for some inmates. I also think he should scheduled telepathic one on one meetings with each inmate to correctly evaluate. I think Clark should be deeply conflicted with Jor-El inventing the projector, and it should give him a sobering look at his second culture. I also think Clark should come into conflict with a number of JL members, and even Lois to a degree on his choices with the PZ criminals.

-In contrast to my top opinion, I think Superman through some other means (DC 1 million sees him travel all of creation, and come back presumably with his immortality) can become basically immortal or just more long lived than the already astonishingly long life he would normally have. TAKE NOTE: I don't think his immortality should come from something already inherent to him or the universe keeping him alive of some sh!t. IF he were to be immortal, it would be because of some ridiculous and harrowing adventure he saw his way through. He's not "the chosen one" or inherently special outside of just being a fantastic person. He's just a very nice guy who happens to have the strangest life possible.

thumbs up

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Superman shouldn't be an immortal sun god. The strongest hero, yes, but not an immortal being. The man lost his planet, let him live and die with the ones he loves, not watch them wither while remaining unchanged.

I think that's part of the drama of the character. Like I said, he's not human. He's an alien.And turning him into a just a nice guy with powers, or as Superlad put it: a nice guy with the strangest life posible, takes away some of his charm. EDIT: IMO, of course.

EDIT: edited my previous post to include a brief thought on Superboy. He should never exist. Neither the young Clark wearing a cape, nor the Superman/ Luthor clone.