Being to powerful is actually detrimental to a heroes storytelling potential.

[Thor-Ul]

Being overpowerful isn't a trouble for manga characters. But maybe is a cultural problem.

[SiegePerilous02]

I won't speak for younger generations, but I believe the Bronze Age generation that I belong to and those older thought Supe's power set was the #1 thing that made him who he was. Everything else, though important, was secondary.

Yep, and weirdly the fans who complain that he is too powerful will also complain when he doesn't live up to his legend, so damned if you do...

People want to bring up STAS lasting three seasons, and Smallville lasting 10, while conveniently leaving out that those shows happened and...Superman's still in the same position he's been in the past 30 years.

Which is admittedly isn't a bad place compared to plenty of other characters, but still not really where he used to be.

The former being produced by a creator who blatantly prefers Batman and says Superman is tough because he's "old fashioned" isn't helping at all. Especially when he WRITES him as old fashioned, so it's like this self fulfilling prophecy. "Superman can't be cool in a way that speaks to modern audiences, so let's not try."

[Robanker]

Yep, and weirdly the fans who complain that he is too powerful will also complain when he doesn't live up to his legend, so damned if you do...



Which is admittedly isn't a bad place compared to plenty of other characters, but still not really where he used to be.

The former being produced by a creator who blatantly prefers Batman and says Superman is tough because he's "old fashioned" isn't helping at all. Especially when he WRITES him as old fashioned, so it's like this self fulfilling prophecy. "Superman can't be cool in a way that speaks to modern audiences, so let's not try."

See: "Nobody wants Wonder events, look at Amazons Attack!"

[SecretWarrior]

People want to bring up STAS lasting three seasons, and Smallville lasting 10, while conveniently leaving out that those shows happened and...Superman's still in the same position he's been in the past 30 years.

Characters from those shows were ported to the comics, they modernized Superman instead of repeating Chris Reeves, and they made Clark likable and popular as a person, not just as a tank. Critics view the first and third seasons of STAS as more consistently great than B:TAS. It's just that B:TAS debuted on Fox Primetime, while S:TAS was a Saturday morning cartoon. Tim Daly and Tom Welling are still appreciated, and I can only imagine how much lower in popularity the Superman brand would be today if it weren't for those shows.

[SecretWarrior]

This guy doesn't have to be stronger than the S:TAS version or Ultimate Thor to be interesting:



He's actually more interesting at that level. He's just a weirdly strong guy from Kansas, and occasionally he needs to team up with folks to get the job done.

[PCN24454]

This guy doesn't have to be stronger than the S:TAS version or Ultimate Thor to be interesting:



He's actually more interesting at that level. He's just a weirdly strong guy from Kansas, and occasionally he needs to team up with folks to get the job done.

He also doesn’t have to be weaker than them to be interesting as well.

[manwhohaseverything]

Just curious but does that apply to other street level characters as well?

Can the other Batfamily members be on superhero teams AND still fight street level crime? Should Green Arrow, Captain America, Spider-Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye, etc have to choose between being members of the JL or Avengers and street level crime fighting or does that only apply to Batman?

Yeah!everyone of them.Spidey ain't Street tier.black widow ,hawkers..etc are not exactly beating up galactus either

He's actually more interesting at that level. He's just a weirdly strong guy from Kansas, and occasionally he needs to team up with folks to get the job done.

Yeah!that's actually atrocious. He is not a "just" a strong guy from kansas.He is a strongman from space.Moreover,They already do. He always was blending in and hiding his great strength from the start.That is not complex,that is merely fluff.The pic you posted,i mean.He looks like a human ,but inside he is monster,an beast,an alien..etc.It's the tarzan like duality. Superman is a man of two worlds.He is person. Not a human.He doesn't need to be.Even in that scene,he is basically feeling alienation or otherness.

[Superfan90]

Do you really want me to show you that Superman was their golden child before Batman, other examples like Billy Batson, and such nice little things like DC's blatant sexism back then?

But Captain Marvel was just as strong as Superman, multiple times stated as such.

Your claim is that they depowered Diana due to political reasons (Now its due to sexism) but Supergirl was often stated as strong as Superman and Mary Marvel was as strong as Captain Marvel.

Something doesn't adds up.

[Agent Z]

Being overpowerful isn't a trouble for manga characters. But maybe is a cultural problem.

As I stated before, manga and anime are much better at pitting the main protagonist against villains on their level or closer to it.

[Rightoya]

But Captain Marvel was just as strong as Superman, multiple times stated as such.

Your claim is that they depowered Diana due to political reasons (Now its due to sexism) but Supergirl was often stated as strong as Superman and Mary Marvel was as strong as Captain Marvel.

Something doesn't adds up.

And not shown as such, do you even know how many statements DC has made about Wonder Woman already?

Sexism is a notable part of it and a political reason in itself, Supergirl was before the Bronze Age hardly stronger than Wonder Woman or truly as strong as Superman, and even in the Bronze Age kind of vague, but being a part of the Superman franchise sure helped her a bit. And by taking all statements in favour of someone or other things like that as seriously as you do, has Post Crisis Wonder Woman no limit to her strength but is at least as strong as Superman, faster than Superman, more agile than Flash, can at best be stopped by Superman, but not by Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, and so on, is Powergirl therefore faster than Superman, and this goes on and on.

All of it sadly adds up, it is just a bit more complex, it wasn't some kind of evil sexistic conspiracy or that 1 political reason. It were political reasons flavoured with blatant sexism as core, but mixed with blatant incompetence like the white suit Diana Prince era shows, and quite some other problems.

[lemonpeace]

Being overpowerful isn't a trouble for manga characters. But maybe is a cultural problem.

that's because in manga at the heart of their storytelling culture is actually telling legitimately good stories. it feels in mainstream comics' storytelling, particularly DC's storytelling culture, story is secondary to making a supposedly "more profitable" book. so X characters need to look stronger than Y. character and B. character can never look better or stronger than C. character because supposedly that sells better therefore good story.

[Superfan90]

And not shown as such, do you even know how many statements DC has made about Wonder Woman already?

Sexism is a notable part of it and a political reason in itself, Supergirl was before the Bronze Age hardly stronger than Wonder Woman or truly as strong as Superman, and even in the Bronze Age kind of vague, but being a part of the Superman franchise sure helped her a bit. And by taking all statements in favour of someone or other things like that as seriously as you do, has Post Crisis Wonder Woman no limit to her strength but is at least as strong as Superman, faster than Superman, more agile than Flash, can at best be stopped by Superman, but not by Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, and so on, is Powergirl therefore faster than Superman, and this goes on and on.

All of it sadly adds up, it is just a bit more complex, it wasn't some kind of evil sexistic conspiracy or that 1 political reason. It were political reasons flavoured with blatant sexism as core, but mixed with blatant incompetence like the white suit Diana Prince era shows, and quite some other problems.

Except Captain Marvel was actually shown as strong or even stronger than Superman (as shown in DC comics presents 49 against Black Adam).

So what do you take as a proof? Sorry, your opinion isn't proof.

[The Darknight Detective]

And not shown as such, do you even know how many statements DC has made about Wonder Woman already?

Sexism is a notable part of it and a political reason in itself, Supergirl was before the Bronze Age hardly stronger than Wonder Woman or truly as strong as Superman, and even in the Bronze Age kind of vague, but being a part of the Superman franchise sure helped her a bit. And by taking all statements in favour of someone or other things like that as seriously as you do, has Post Crisis Wonder Woman no limit to her strength but is at least as strong as Superman, faster than Superman, more agile than Flash, can at best be stopped by Superman, but not by Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, and so on, is Powergirl therefore faster than Superman, and this goes on and on.

All of it sadly adds up, it is just a bit more complex, it wasn't some kind of evil sexistic conspiracy or that 1 political reason. It were political reasons flavoured with blatant sexism as core, but mixed with blatant incompetence like the white suit Diana Prince era shows, and quite some other problems.

It's less politics or anything else, but based on reality - women are physically weaker than men. It's understandable that they were presented as such, even if anything is possible fictionally. Now if men and women were equal in strength and still were portrayed the way you state in comics, then you would have a valid point.

[OopsIdiditagain]

that's because in manga at the heart of their storytelling culture is actually telling legitimately good stories. it feels in mainstream comics' storytelling, particularly DC's storytelling culture, story is secondary to making a supposedly "more profitable" book. so X characters need to look stronger than Y. character and B. character can never look better or stronger than C. character because supposedly that sells better therefore good story.

That's not really fair. Mangas are also about making profit, that's why we see so many of them get axed or authors try to tell a story for as long as they because it's more profitable(Naruto, Bleach). Mangas just have the benefit of having closed continuities, it's easier to develop characters and their relationships when you don't have to worry about crossovers or big events.

[OopsIdiditagain]

It's less politics or anything else, but based on reality - women are physically weaker than men. It's understandable that they were presented as such, even if anything is possible fictionally. Now if men and women were equal in strength and still were portrayed the way you state in comics, then you would have a valid point.

Wonder Woman is the child of gods, it doesn't really make sense to base her strength on our human context. Even with Kryptonians, there are plenty of species where the roles are flipped and females are stronger.