Yeah, I think some writers make the mistake that the way to give Doom more "villain cred" is to have him do something really awful...and Unthinkable. With Waid, I knew the path he would take was going to be pretty dark when he said he felt that Doom would bite the head off a newborn baby if it would help get one over on Reed. And seeing as how much it took for Doom to free his mother and then the trials he went through annually in another bargain with a demon, it didn't make sense that he would even need to consort with the Hazaareth demons to get a power up. He already was near Sorceror Supreme level anyway having been tutored by Stephen prior to undertaking the fight with Mephisto.
IMO I've always found any villain more interesting if they have more shades of gray and not an all out black hat villain. And I think I am not alone in the opinion that Steve Englehart screwed over a lot of characters in his day....Crystal, Clea (who cheated on Stephen with Ben Franklin of all people) and Quicksilver. Not to mention his pet character Mantis who was just an awful addition to the Avengers when he was writing it.
Would he really? He was very distraught when he thought Doom had died holding off the Mad Celestials.
The last time we saw him, he was living with Doom and having dinner with Reed and Stephen.
No writer has really used him since Hickman left AFAIK. I credit Hickman with bringing him back into the fold so to speak. One of Hickman's themes during his run was that of fathers and sons....Reed and Nathaniel, Reed and Franklin, Bentley Whitman and Bentley 23 (or sometimes 32), Doom and Kristoff. But even earlier than that in the Gage's Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four mini, we saw Kristoff was angry because he felt the only father he had known neglected him. We know what really happens is that no writer really used him since Heroes Reborn. I think he was just shuffled off in to neglected and forgotten character limbo, like Wyatt Wingfoot.
When Kristoff came to Jennifer to have her represent him in court in a case where he wanted to seek asylum in the U.S, she found him to be a bit spoiled. But his real complaint with the only man he's ever known as his father was that he wanted to get out from under his shadow and be his own man. Funny how with Kristoff he's reaching adulthood whereas Franklin seems to be permanently around 9 years old when originally he and Kristoff were around the same age.
Last edited by Iron Maiden; 03-13-2018 at 08:13 AM.
No Franklin is an average kid when it comes to intelligence just with the powers of a God. He should be the Bart to Val's Lisa.
Val doesn't act like a super-smart child, she acts like an adult which both is jarring and boring. Some things should be different considering her intelligence, but she should still be emotionally immature and still have child-like qualities. It would be fun that whenever she has a tantrum she might make a doomsday device or some other crazy gadget, or she makes a disintegrator for the boogieman, or she creates a device to catch the tooth fairy. The trick is to combine child-like characteristics with the super intelligence. While she is super smart she should still believe in things like Santa and get sacred by the dark. Focusing so much on her intelligence to the point where doesn't act like a child at all is a disservice to the character and a missed opportunity for so many fun ideas.
I've also noticed that there is no child-like wonder to any scientific discovery with her. She acts like a 50 year old who's seen it all before and is about to write her memoirs, even Reed gets excited like a kid when he discovers something new. No writer has written Valeria in a good way for me.
Last edited by Crimz; 03-13-2018 at 08:27 AM.
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That can still happen as she is still very intelligent, but she shouldn't be just a small adult who doesn't act like a child at all. Her occasionally seeming to be smartest and most mature in the room would actually be emphasized even more if she actually acts like a child most of the time.
Last edited by Crimz; 03-13-2018 at 08:26 AM.
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that the relationship between Doom and Valeria is healthy is delusion
Healthly is subjective..... Some of us here find it a fascinating relationship
that Doom didn't spend the better part of a century as a petty self-serving villain is delusion
He also spent part of that time helping the FF fight the Overmind at Sue's request.
Cured the comatose Atlanteans
Helped Spider-Man, Wanda, and the Vision against the Dark Rider
Defeated the Beyonders plan to destroy the multiverse when no one else figured it out in time
Provided evidence to the U.S. that Wakanda wasn't responsible for destroying one of their ships
the Fantastic Four did not deserve to be tormented
Valeria did not deserve to be snuffed out and, literally, treated as an object for Doom's revenge scheme
According to Mark Waid apparently it was necessary for his story. We are free to disagree with it just as many Spider-Man fans disagree with OMD.
Doom was way too powerful to be defending himself when he murdered Cassie Lang
If you're going to fight in the big leagues you better be ready to take it. And he did bring her back to life again.
if you can't accept these truths, then you've chosen to embrace a comfortable lie
Nope, we just don't agree with some writers interpretations.
Last edited by Iron Maiden; 03-13-2018 at 09:07 AM.
About doom and franklin don't forget doom offered to take him in and help him control his powers in fantastic four 306 and annual 20. They turned him down flat but he took him anyways then wanted to trade his soul for his moms! Nice guy.
[IMG][/IMG]
With that said doom has been less evil in the current stories and more "a big jerk" like quicksilver and sub-mariner was when they were in avengers. So I could see him making things up with the fantastic four.
Val reminds me of haibara in detective conan.That is the funny thing about Val sometimes (though I don't necessarily think it's a boring aspect of the character). She can often seem the smartest, most mature person in the room.
That kind of highlights the problem with Val to me as Haibara is literally an adult trapped in a kids body. Val is just meant to be a really smart kid.
I think Stewie from Family Guy (before it became crap) could be a fun template for writing Val in the future minus the whole trying to kill her mother part.
Last edited by Crimz; 03-13-2018 at 09:27 AM.
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It's the story of a toddler favoring the violent despot of a totalitarian state that has dedicated his life to destroy her family over her own family.
It's also the story of two heroic characters neglecting their role in raising a child.
Hardly what anyone would call "healthy".