Last edited by aja_christopher; 08-01-2019 at 04:12 PM.
Original join date: 11/23/2004
Eclectic Connoisseur of all things written, drawn, or imaginatively created.
It's my opinion and I am entitled to it. I judge Biden for is record more than anything:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...y-clinton-2020
Is mass incarceration a moderate policy now? That's what Biden promoted.
I do not think centrism is evil, I think it's weak, I think it breaks under pressure and let's bad people like the extreme Republicans get a lot of what they want, it surrenders and cedes ground, it let's the GOP set the terms of battle everytime and let's them frame the debate. Why should I respect that is too weak to fight to win on every front?
The GOP is a far right party and they promoted an image of strength, while the moderate Democrats have been cast as weaklings. I bet truly left wing Democratic party could present a better image of strength and determination, which the moderates have failed to do.
That mass incarceration was heavily campaigned for by the black community and many key elements of the Democratic voting bloc at the time. We can look back with it and regret it, but context is important.
More to the point - losing gives you zero strength. Zero. Winning the house has been the only thing that stemmed the tide of the last four years. Following what you say would lose strength, not gain it. Frankly, it's you who isn't fighting to win because you are prizing your ideology over election wins.
Run progressives where they can win. Where they can't, run people that will beat Republicans. When progressives can win more districts, run more of them. Until they can...you will lose with what you say. Out of arrogance you are rolling out the red carpet for the next Trump.
A congressional election in a district and a federal Presidental one are different beasts though.
What have the moderate proposed that is popular and gaining traction?
Okay, do you want me to say first sure that Warren or Sanders will beat Trump? I can't say that, I do not know the future.
But you say with absolute certainty that Biden will win? What if Trump picks apart his record or makes a bunch of gaffes?
I have my theory and you can have yours, but I think this most electable thing is a bit of myth:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.wa...outputType=amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rol...th-858699/amp/
What if Biden if chosen because he is the most " electable" and he loses, then what?
Here's the whole reason that people need to seriously reconsider this sort of thinking...
If there was an actual "Where Progressives Can't Win...", we probably wouldn't even be talking about Sanders right now. Meanwhile, he competed and won in places where plenty of folks didn't think he had a shot.
I think strength brings victory. I think I am arguing for what I think is the best way forward.
The Dems lost a thousand seats during and seveeral governorships during the Obama years, how is that winning?
https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...egislatures-o/
I know you have to run moderates in some areas to win, but saying the moderates should always call the shots and we should run an endless supply of Kerry, Biden and Clinton types, is learning nothing from 2016. You seem to want to repeat history, I want to break the cycle we are trapped in.
Trumpism grew under Obama's watch, why should we assume the same thing won't happen with Biden?
Last edited by The Overlord; 08-01-2019 at 05:05 PM.
No one is saying progressives can't win -- what is being said is that you can't convince people that they can win consistently until we see it happening on a much larger scale, especially in contrast to moderates, who are leading the charge in taking back both the House and the White House, and potentially the Senate.
Intentionally avoiding the statistical fact that moderates win more congressional seats and presidencies than progressives does not make said fact go away -- you can support whatever candidate you want, but don't ignore political reality and sabotage more successful platforms in the Democratic party just because you disagree with them.
Last edited by aja_christopher; 08-01-2019 at 04:40 PM.
If he has the best shot and he loses...then he loses. But if he is the best shot....then anyone else loses too.
You seem to be of the misguided belief that policies matter to voters.
I prefer to set my personal ideology aside in favor of data. Thats where our theories separate. Yours is based on a want, mine on relevant data.
Political cycles come and go -- prior to that, Democrats were on the winning side of the political spectrum after Bush.
You might just as well point at the last historic midterm and use it as an indication that moderates are the key to winning back Congress and the White House.
Last edited by aja_christopher; 08-01-2019 at 04:46 PM.
Candidate Donald Trump, and now President Donald Trump, has no discernible policy principles or underlying philosophy to anything he campaigned on or has done, or tried to do, as President.
Clearly, there is more to what American voters look for in a candidate than where they fall on the political spectrum . . . because Trump sends that thing into logical paradox mode. (The man's a Dixiecrat as much as anything identifiable.)
The Cover Contest Weekly Winners ThreadSo much winning!!
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
“It’s your party and you can cry if you want to.” - Captain Europe