Originally Posted by
manwhohaseverything
Yeah! I brought up all those characters. Why? Because this idea that a superman-esque action hero is hard to write is bogus. Furthermore, only to say that superman-esque characters can be used to tell different types of stories. Let's examine shall we.
One punch man might be a deconstruction. But, he is very much an idea that could have been pulled of with superman. So, superman is vacuum of dead ideas is bogus. What do you mean by nothing like superman? They both where wierd as costumes and fight because of a core instinct. One is altruism and the other is existential boredom. They are both flat arc(will not change). High powerlevels. They are both unadulterated heroes.
It doesn't matter. Deku also has all powers similar to clark (for the most part. If he learns other abilities of his previous users it would be different). Durability, strength, speed, agility and jumping ability . And yes, superman is agile. These guys just use him like a brick is all. Deku isn't a flat arc character like superman and allmight himself. But, superman-esque abilities can be protrayed excitingly is shown with both all might and deku. Furthermore, all three of these dudes are actual strongmen, share the basic ethic and same philosophy. "do the work that matters to get stronger"
What a fantastic observation. You do understand some characters aren't supposed to change fron the start.You don't expect sherlock holmes or james bond or tintin to change. do you? People actually like goku as he is. They don't need to cater to people that don't. They need to find new people to like goku as he is. He is an amazing flat arc character. Btw, goku has changed. He has become more excepting of saiyan side. As for not facing consequences, what consequences did he not face? As if goku didn't get schooled for sending gohan into battle and die protecting him. Furthermore, it's treated like joke. Because guess what? The franchise isn't about family drama. It's about big bam fights, planet busting action.. Etc. If you don't like the franchise, that doesnÂ’t mean the franchise is bad. It just means the franchise isn't for you. Goku another flat arc character like superman. Same origin. He is about perfecting a craft and pushing your limit. Dedicating your whole life to that craft. Even at the cost of personal life. Yes! Many atheletes have chose their career over personal life. Because being at the pinnacle always comes at a cost.
As for ichigo, what development did you want from the character?the character learned fight without hating someone. Isn't that a development? (i don't remember much of bleach) and that was after the first arc. Ichigo had development, he was never a flat arc character. Like luffy or goku.So, no mate. He ain't nothing like superman. He is more like spiderman. Be that as a may,a character(ichigo) about getting together with friends, to fix an emptyness(hollow) in your life that was created by the death of a loved one. Every one of the cast is going through the lose of a loved one.
Luffy an adventurer pirate. An opmistic anarchist who fights everybody, for dreams and freedom.
Gon from hxh. Another flat arc character in the hunt for a familial connection.
Another flat arc character, that will never change. Because he doesn't have to. It's not about him. It's about his world. Something all these characters have in common. These guys are purest forms of ideal, that get stuck in a world that is blurred or stands against the ideal or philosophy of the protagonist . That doesn't mean these characters aren't flawed. They all are, it is when these characters lose their fundamental sins through "development" that these characters lose their humanity and become saints.
Their flaws are quirks that make them what they are. Tom will always chase jerry. Popeye will always eat spinach. And those pesky meddling kids will meddle and run scared. they change formula now and then. But ultimately, they would return back to status quo. Also, these characters can be revised to fit a period or for a change of pace as well. After a superman became "marvelised" as you put it. Ofcourse, origin stories aren't what makes them interesting. It the chase. Also, they can be tempted by the world or have complex narratives.
Finally, making him relatable wasn't the problem Nor was the man of steel's darker asthetic.Byrne reboot just focused on clark kent, not kal el or superman.it didn't make superman relatable. It made him drama centric wet towel, with no sense of leadership. Man of steel had its share of pacing problems and same problems as byrne reboot. Clark was never incharge of a situation and actually being a heroic protagonist.The only exception to that is flight. Which was universally embraced. Tell me, was bruce wayne non-heroic in darkknight trilogy. "they will send the dogs on him. Cause, he can take it". That is heroic as heck. I would comply that superman fandom has its share of idiosyncrasies. But, this idea that its more than any other fandom.And that they are more rigid is something you need to prove. Why? Cause superman is the most changed character. Batman doesn't come close. He is the most revamped and rebooted character. They have changed him again and again from scratch.
As for being hard, you sprouted your opinions on various characters. But, that still doesn't change the fact that these are superman-esque flat arc characters. Different ideas, with different tones and getting different results. Furthermore, they are all successful. Even the dragon ball goku, you seem to hate. So, this idea that superman-esque action heroes are hard to write and are dead ends for ideas is proven false. As for the rest of the para. I generally agree. But, if you mean by human element a character that's drama fest.Then, i am sorry. I am not interested.It's funny Amazing spiderman can be amazing. Batman can be "the god damn batman" or batgod. But, when superman is being super. People have problems.
Development or change doesn't make a character complex or interesting. It's about ideas and philosophies that the character carries or embodies and its impact on the opposing or resistant world that makes these characters great.Some ideas come from others and are supposed to change you. Some ideas are supposed to change others and coming from you. Characters like superman are precisely that. Would except vegeta developing into a non-fighter? Piccolo did. Would you except batman developing into a healthy person giving up his futile Vigilantism?
That's precisely why toriyama felt it difficult to write gohan as the protagonist. It would be another great hero story. As you know, goku was never a hero. He is obsessed with fighting and bushido ethics. He is a warrior by nature. He wasn't fighting for truth and justice or whatever nonsense. Why? If you want that kinda drama, watch smallville and spiderman. Dragon ball is about martial arts, comedy and fights, Not high school drama.Even with that, toriyama wrote gohan as saiyaman - paradoying superheroes and superman , his love life with videl. If you want another with "great power comes, great drama". Read spiderman. Don't read dragon ball and wish for it to be spiderman.