New Avengers #24 Review (w/spoilers)

[neohuey89]

by giving up yes they were killing everything in existence. they did this twice.

not the same thing, but whatever.

[Juggernaut Punch]

not the same thing, but whatever.

Sure it is. They had the chance to save everything in existence by pushing a button. They decided they would rather let everything die.

[neohuey89]

Sure it is. They had the chance to save everything in existence by pushing a button. They decided they would rather let everything die.

that's not proactively killing everyone. Even if they blew up the planet as stated before if they did blow up the planet it would've only stalled the inevitable. The Cabal blowing up planets only brings them closer to the death of everything. The only one really saving anyone is the ones who figure out how to stop the incursions. Blowing up planets only makes your death later in the timeline.

[Username taken]

Sure it is. They had the chance to save everything in existence by pushing a button. They decided they would rather let everything die.

Actually, two universes would die not everything in existence.

The Illuminati acted stupidly up to that point but I understand not being able to take billions of lives at a go.

Killing billions of people without giving said people any chance isn't something lots of people can do regardless of the circumstances.

[Iron Maiden]

Except for all the time Valeria persuaded Reed that he could and should work with Doom in Hickman's own FF run... was it a perfectly smooth and happy alliance? No, but it worked to save everything from the Mad Celestials. You'd think as fresh as he's coming off that experience, he would have been right with Namor in proposing to let Victor in on things. At least once they'd booted Steve.

And remember how Reed was tempted to hit the erase button when they were using Kristoff to repair the brain damage done Doom sustained in Fall of the Hulks? Good thing Nathaniel gave him that look.

After all, who says that Future Franklin's admonition that "All Hope Lies in Doom" came with an expiration date?

Future Franklin's been quiet about that point but he's not telling them to stay away from Doom either. I still think once Doom has traced things back to the source he might need reinforcements.

[Username taken]

that's not proactively killing everyone. Even if they blew up the planet as stated before if they did blow up the planet it would've only stalled the inevitable. The Cabal blowing up planets only brings them closer to the death of everything. The only one really saving anyone is the ones who figure out how to stop the incursions. Blowing up planets only makes your death later in the timeline.

Exactly.

Blowing up the planets is actually accelerating the end of the multiverse but buys the 616 time.

The 616 universe is dying (as evidenced in Avengers #35) despite the Cabal's efforts and it seems the full nature of the Incursions hasn't been fully understood.

[Juggernaut Punch]

that's not proactively killing everyone. Even if they blew up the planet as stated before if they did blow up the planet it would've only stalled the inevitable. The Cabal blowing up planets only brings them closer to the death of everything. The only one really saving anyone is the ones who figure out how to stop the incursions. Blowing up planets only makes your death later in the timeline.

It is killing them. It's not murdering them, but it is killing them.

Blowing up planets doesn't bring you closer to the death of everything. Universes being destroyed does. Every universe you save is slowing down the death of everything.

Saying that blowing up planets is pointless because you're only delaying your own death is silly. You might as well not bother getting out of the way of that speeding car, 'cause you're gonna die anyways, right? If the Illuminati had sacked up and destroyed those planets, they would have bought themselves time to solve the Incursions. Now the Cabal are the ones buying that time for Doom, which is a pretty shitty situation compared to the one they were in before.

[AcesX1X]

you might as well not even get out of bed

[Mark]

Would the death of everything really be so bad? After all for every death something comes along to replace it. Dinosaurs die and we show up, VHS and Beta fade away and the DVR moves in... For every death something better can come after. Take out the mu and maybe something better will come along and replace it. At the very least if the mu goes up in smoke we won't have to go through yet another event.

It is killing them. It's not murdering them, but it is killing them.

Blowing up planets doesn't bring you closer to the death of everything. Universes being destroyed does. Every universe you save is slowing down the death of everything.

Saying that blowing up planets is pointless because you're only delaying your own death is silly. You might as well not bother getting out of the way of that speeding car, 'cause you're gonna die anyways, right? If the Illuminati had sacked up and destroyed those planets, they would have bought themselves time to solve the Incursions. Now the Cabal are the ones buying that time for Doom, which is a pretty shitty situation compared to the one they were in before.

[dkrook]

Namor's entire kingdom has been splintered and decimated, now he's fighting for the planet when all but Strange were having tantrums. So he is going down fighting, he's took up arms with the most ruthless SOBs he could get a hold of but they are even more ruthless than he can stomach. Shuri, while stupid, also went down fighting for her kingdom and what remains of her people. BP had a tantrum and had his ancestors disown him, then he left his kid sister who took the throne because he failed as a king previously to die at the hands of Proxima. BP's a coward who has failed his people, Namor took a knee and turned his enemies against one another and now is using them to further his cause of fighting off incursions. He's made tough choices he's not happy with but he's still doing what he needs to, he's not breaking down in tears and then lashing out. Even when Doom refuses to help, he doesn't go all Imperious Rex and start a fight like BP did after Namor pulled the trigger when BP refused, even as his father's spirit urged him to do so. He accepts he made the wrong choice, it's too late and now he's likely stuck with his gang of psychos.

The only thing you've highlighted is Namor was the dumbest sob, even more so than cap. You don't make a deal with Thanos, period. He has been making a slew of bone-headed judgment calls since the middle of this crisis. I can't wait to see what happens to Namor whenever Thanos is done making a simp outta him

[dkrook]

Shuri probably murdered them. Wakandans have a pretty famous amount of bloodlust.

You are right on point, and yes it would have been extended to namor if he were there. Please, he's Namor not Galactus.

[Hariel0079]

It is killing them. It's not murdering them, but it is killing them.

.

Killing and murdering are albeit the same thing, it's really TRIVIAL scementics that separates it. You can't have one without the other, it just doesn't work that way.

[Viteh]

Killing and murdering are albeit the same thing, it's really TRIVIAL scementics that separates it. You can't have one without the other, it just doesn't work that way.

At least according to the law you can. Murder is homicide that includes malice aforethought, basically that they intended to kill them. You can't murder someone without killing them, but you can kill someone without murdering them. Like manslaughter.

[Emma's Midriff]

You are right on point, and yes it would have been extended to namor if he were there. Please, he's Namor not Galactus.

Namor can go toe to toe with Sentry and Hulk. Especially underwater. Some no-names from Wakanda would not have stood a chance.

[ShaokhaN]

Also in 8months it really does appear like they aren't doing anything in regards to the problem of the universe collapsing on other universes.

We haven't seen what the Illuminati have been up to yet, so we simply cannot pass judgement on what progress they've made during the 8 months at this point.

Oh, and shouldn't he still have custody of Valeria at this point? She should be bossing Thinker around in the research department, as she's smarter and more creative. Not to mention more trusted by Doom.

Agreed, but perhaps at this point Valeria is not in his custody anymore? I'd love it if she was working with the Illuminati, but I imagine Sue would have mentioned her when interrogating Cho (unless she didn't know, but that seems a bit far-fetched).

Which I didn't really buy from any of them except *maybe* Bruce Banner.

Reed should have been working in *some* lab *somewhere* racking his brain for anything he could try to preserve the lives of his family without resorting to genocide.... or at the very least tried to enact a contingency plan where he sent them to relative safety in the Negative Zone or a Microverse or somewhere. I just can't buy him deciding to let them die and sit idly by, even if he got some quality time in before the end.

Tony I guess could get despondent and nihilistic enough to do so, possibly crawling back into the bottle, but on balance I think not.

Black Bolt should still be invested in the welfare of his people, which kind of includes not letting them vanish along with two universes in a moment, one should think.

Strange has already corrupted himself enough that he no longer sees any cure as being worse than the disease, and doesn't need the bombs to sacrifice alternate Earths to eldritch gods from before the dawn of time if that's what he sees as the best course of treatment. Or maybe he'd make an attempt to do Sise-Neg one better and reboot not just the universe, but the entire multiverse.

T'Challa I could see either sticking with his decision or reversing it, but only after he had actually tried other means of saving his people.

So, that whole issue where they were sitting around waiting for it just didn't ring true to somebody who's read basically anything with these characters in it before.

Agreed. I very much like some of the Illuminati, like Reed for example, and Hickman has written him so out of character that it's painful to read.