Amazing Spider-Man 55 (Spoilers)

[RJT]

This is NOT Spencer's style; this is padding, plain and simple. You can defend it, you can argue for it, but it's padding.

Admittedly, I've only read a couple of Spencer's works before ASM, but in them I saw he had q good handle on the story. This? This is the opposite of that.

Add to that the inability of the title to hold down an artist and you have a book very much in trouble.

I'm not going to argue for it, but I can say as someone who has read a lot of Spencer's work, this is not an unusual amount of padding for him. It's his style. He's been critiqued for it as long as he's been writing comics. The idea that this is some kind of editorial mandate to spread one issue's worth of material over two to justify the double shipping is insane. It's not like Spencer only has one idea a month and Marvel is forcing him to chop it in half so they can make double the profits. Look at Superior Spider-man--regardless of what you think about that storyline, it wasn't 15 issues spread out over 30 issues. There have been a lot of criticisms of Slott's run but I've never seen decompression be one of them. So thinking that Marvel editorial is forcing Spencer to drag out his storyline (especially when slow storytelling is something that has killed momentum and sales of other books) is not something that can be realistically argued.

[RJT]

I agree that Clone Saga was NOT about de-aging Peter, but the rationale behind it was the same as OMD: Fear of a loss of income. What disturbs me about Spencer is for someone who knows his Spider-Man history ( and far better then me), is he has not remembered the lessons of Clone Saga and how it almost bankrupted Marvel. What was it? That particular story confused the audience and got many to stop reading. He risks the same thing happening here. As for Sins Past, the comment “Good Old Days” was without question in my mind not a reference to ASM 121 but Sins Past. Why? Norman Osborn is a total douche. Except for Cletus the most evil character Peter faces. But unlike Cletus he does not enjoy killing. That is not his motivation ( although he has no hesitation about doing that). He enjoyed shacking up with Gwen and making Peter suffer over her death is just a cherry on the top.

Clone Saga is not what bankrupted Marvel. The problem with the Clone Saga was the opposite--that it was too successful. If you read the Life of Reilly website or Sean Collins' book on the history of Marvel, you'd know that the Spider-man books were one of the few titles whose sales were rising at the time--the Clone Saga was initially a hit, so the editors were told to keep it going. That's why there were all those feints and headfakes--the writers were forced to extend the storyline far beyond what they had planned because it was a sales hit. (This is not to argue about the merits of the initial storyline or the reasons why it was initiated--just that it was one of the few bright spots saleswise for the company at the time.)

According to Assistant Editor Glenn Greenberg:
"As an aside, it should be noted that sales on the Spider-Man books at this time were phenomenal. I feel the need to point at that, despite popular belief, the clone saga significantly boosted sales on the Spider-Man books. At a time when the comics industry was starting to head downward, with sales dropping across the board on every title, the Spider-Man line was bucking the trend, with sales holding steady and even increasing each month. Of course, the downside to it was that everyone on the business side of Marvel was pushing us to keep the clone saga going for as long as possible, to milk it for all it was worth. Looking back, I can understand their position - the clone saga was one of the very few things that was actually working in the comics industry at the time, and there was a great deal of fear that the sales would drop like an anvil once the storyline was over. But of course, unnaturally prolonging what was at its essence a very finite storyline was extremely short-term thinking, and the kind of approach that could hurt the entire franchise. We (the editors and the writers) knew this, but the sales and marketing departments wielded a lot of power and influence at that time, and we had little choice but to follow their lead. "

http://benreillytribute.x10host.com/LifeofReilly7.html

[TheCape]

Clone Saga is not what bankrupted Marvel. The problem with the Clone Saga was the opposite--that it was too successful. If you read the Life of Reilly website or Sean Collins' book on the history of Marvel, you'd know that the Spider-man books were one of the few titles whose sales were rising at the time--the Clone Saga was initially a hit, so the editors were told to keep it going. That's why there were all those feints and headfakes--the writers were forced to extend the storyline far beyond what they had planned because it was a sales hit. (This is not to argue about the merits of the initial storyline or the reasons why it was initiated--just that it was one of the few bright spots saleswise for the company at the time.)

Yeah, i remember that marketing was mostly the one to blame for how dragged out that storyline was.

[NC_Yankee]

I'm not going to argue for it, but I can say as someone who has read a lot of Spencer's work, this is not an unusual amount of padding for him. It's his style. He's been critiqued for it as long as he's been writing comics. The idea that this is some kind of editorial mandate to spread one issue's worth of material over two to justify the double shipping is insane. It's not like Spencer only has one idea a month and Marvel is forcing him to chop it in half so they can make double the profits. Look at Superior Spider-man--regardless of what you think about that storyline, it wasn't 15 issues spread out over 30 issues. There have been a lot of criticisms of Slott's run but I've never seen decompression be one of them. So thinking that Marvel editorial is forcing Spencer to drag out his storyline (especially when slow storytelling is something that has killed momentum and sales of other books) is not something that can be realistically argued.

That is correct. One thing every entertainment company enjoys is expectations. People buying advance comics, movie tickets whatever. You are certainly not getting it with Spencer and the Kindred Story. You feel like he baked a cake and instead of serving it, decides to add more layers to it. You simply lose interest.

[WebSlingWonder]

I'm not going to argue for it, but I can say as someone who has read a lot of Spencer's work, this is not an unusual amount of padding for him. It's his style. He's been critiqued for it as long as he's been writing comics. The idea that this is some kind of editorial mandate to spread one issue's worth of material over two to justify the double shipping is insane. It's not like Spencer only has one idea a month and Marvel is forcing him to chop it in half so they can make double the profits. Look at Superior Spider-man--regardless of what you think about that storyline, it wasn't 15 issues spread out over 30 issues. There have been a lot of criticisms of Slott's run but I've never seen decompression be one of them. So thinking that Marvel editorial is forcing Spencer to drag out his storyline (especially when slow storytelling is something that has killed momentum and sales of other books) is not something that can be realistically argued.

So if you're saying Spencer is the reason for the decompression, then why is Marvel not reigning him in and asking him to pack more content into these issues? Why are they just letting him get away with all this? They're enabling just as much as Spencer is doing it.

We've literally just "ended" a story that started over 60 issues and two years ago, pandemic aside. This current arc has been going non-stop for over eleven issues (sixteen if you count .LR). That would be fine if the payoff was impressive, but it wasn't. So now, not only was there no payoff and no ending, but we're also being dragged for another six issues of this same story (the next arc is called "Last Remains: Post-Mortem"). Enough is enough.

It's time to acknowledge that this book has serious problems that Marvel will have to consider.

[TheCape]

So if you're saying Spencer is the reason for the decompression, then why is Marvel not reigning him in and asking him to pack more content into these issues? Why are they just letting him get away with all this? They're enabling just as much as Spencer is doing it.

We've literally just "ended" a story that started over 60 issues and two years ago, pandemic aside. This current arc has been going non-stop for over eleven issues (sixteen if you count .LR). That would be fine if the payoff was impressive, but it wasn't. So now, not only was there no payoff and no ending, but we're also being dragged for another six issues of this same story (the next arc is called "Last Remains: Post-Mortem"). Enough is enough.

It's time to acknowledge that this book has serious problems that Marvel will have to consider.

I don't think that Marvel cares much, as long as nothing controversial is happening in the book itself.

[WebSlingWonder]

I don't think that Marvel cares much, as long as nothing controversial is happening in the book itself.

Which is stupid; they should care whether the book is not just "fine" or selling well: they need to care if it's getting acclaim, being loved, whatever

[xpyred]

So if you're saying Spencer is the reason for the decompression, then why is Marvel not reigning him in and asking him to pack more content into these issues? Why are they just letting him get away with all this? They're enabling just as much as Spencer is doing it.

We've literally just "ended" a story that started over 60 issues and two years ago, pandemic aside. This current arc has been going non-stop for over eleven issues (sixteen if you count .LR). That would be fine if the payoff was impressive, but it wasn't. So now, not only was there no payoff and no ending, but we're also being dragged for another six issues of this same story (the next arc is called "Last Remains: Post-Mortem"). Enough is enough.

It's time to acknowledge that this book has serious problems that Marvel will have to consider.

Sadly, I believe far too many people have enjoyed the decompressed style of writing me it doesn’t phase them and that’s troubling. I have a hard time believing everyone on this board this has a full time job due to this pandemic. I have a hard time believing that since the pandemic started, people here are more than happy to shell out 3.99 2-3 times a month with the occasional 4.99 and 5.99 one shot. I have been full time during this pandemic and I absolutely found the last 4 months to be a huge waste of my money. The decompression of this story made it pitiful and pathetic.

Literally spent issues of Harry screaming like a whiny bitch CONFESS CONFESS CONFESS. I wish users here would take off those rose colored glasses and confess that while most of Spencer’s run has been decent, this arc is trash and a hot mess. The whole arc was set up upon set up with no real ending. Doctor strange says “my god Peter did you.... I must investigate” and he’s gone u til he saves the other webbed idiots who actually added NOTHING to the story and then Strange is gone again. And Kindred knew all of Peter and MJ’s moved a and whereabouts but never thought to follow Norman? It never occurred to Kindred to keep a better eye on MJ so that Norman wouldn’t have fooled her into this mess? That’s total **** right there. And I love how a lot of users questioned how Peter was still around in Otto’s mind after he deleted Peter in superior but no one stops to say “can we please have a better explanation as to how Norman tricked kindred and Sin eater? I see some users were disappointed but others are all “next issue. Spend money next issue and it will solve your questions and if it doesn’t, it’s only ecause the following issue has the answers and if not it’s all world building by Spencer’s and he’s a genius.”

And please don’t say “well we are in a pandemic and the releasing of issues was halted” because only Marvel and Image seemed to pause their releases while everyone else still had their issues coming out digitally.

edit: changed DUTIFULLY to digitally which is what I originally meant.

[NC_Yankee]

Sadly, I believe far too many people have enjoyed the decompressed style of writing me it doesn’t phase them and that’s troubling. I have a hard time believing everyone on this board this has a full time job due to this pandemic. I have a hard time believing that since the pandemic started, people here are more than happy to shell out 3.99 2-3 times a month with the occasional 4.99 and 5.99 one shot. I have been full time during this pandemic and I absolutely found the last 4 months to be a huge waste of my money. The decompression of this story made it pitiful and pathetic.

Literally spent issues of Harry screaming like a whiny bitch CONFESS CONFESS CONFESS. I wish users here would take off those rose colored glasses and confess that while most of Spencer’s run has been decent, this arc is trash and a hot mess. The whole arc was set up upon set up with no real ending. Doctor strange says “my god Peter did you.... I must investigate” and he’s gone u til he saves the other webbed idiots who actually added NOTHING to the story and then Strange is gone again. And Kindred knew all of Peter and MJ’s moved a and whereabouts but never thought to follow Norman? It never occurred to Kindred to keep a better eye on MJ so that Norman wouldn’t have fooled her into this mess? That’s total **** right there. And I love how a lot of users questioned how Peter was still around in Otto’s mind after he deleted Peter in superior but no one stops to say “can we please have a better explanation as to how Norman tricked kindred and Sin eater? I see some users were disappointed but others are all “next issue. Spend money next issue and it will solve your questions and if it doesn’t, it’s only ecause the following issue has the answers and if not it’s all world building by Spencer’s and he’s a genius.”

And please don’t say “well we are in a pandemic and the releasing of issues was halted” because only Marvel and Image seemed to pause their releases while everyone else still had their issues coming out dutifully.

You are correct. The virus is an excuse., this story should have been over by now. Here is one example: If Osborn was not going to be cured, then there was no reason for Sin Eater ( unless of course it is about “paddling” and selling more comics).

[Vortex85]

Sadly, I believe far too many people have enjoyed the decompressed style of writing me it doesn’t phase them and that’s troubling. I have a hard time believing everyone on this board this has a full time job due to this pandemic. I have a hard time believing that since the pandemic started, people here are more than happy to shell out 3.99 2-3 times a month with the occasional 4.99 and 5.99 one shot. I have been full time during this pandemic and I absolutely found the last 4 months to be a huge waste of my money. The decompression of this story made it pitiful and pathetic.

Literally spent issues of Harry screaming like a whiny bitch CONFESS CONFESS CONFESS. I wish users here would take off those rose colored glasses and confess that while most of Spencer’s run has been decent, this arc is trash and a hot mess. The whole arc was set up upon set up with no real ending. Doctor strange says “my god Peter did you.... I must investigate” and he’s gone u til he saves the other webbed idiots who actually added NOTHING to the story and then Strange is gone again. And Kindred knew all of Peter and MJ’s moved a and whereabouts but never thought to follow Norman? It never occurred to Kindred to keep a better eye on MJ so that Norman wouldn’t have fooled her into this mess? That’s total **** right there. And I love how a lot of users questioned how Peter was still around in Otto’s mind after he deleted Peter in superior but no one stops to say “can we please have a better explanation as to how Norman tricked kindred and Sin eater? I see some users were disappointed but others are all “next issue. Spend money next issue and it will solve your questions and if it doesn’t, it’s only ecause the following issue has the answers and if not it’s all world building by Spencer’s and he’s a genius.”

And please don’t say “well we are in a pandemic and the releasing of issues was halted” because only Marvel and Image seemed to pause their releases while everyone else still had their issues coming out dutifully.

Comic are overpriced period. I don't have a problem paying per issue though because I've enjoyed all of them and am excited about the story they are telling, even if it's slow. It's fun to read and I'm very entertained by it.

I understand if all you care about is getting to the destination in the story Spencer is telling, but to me it's mostly about the journey. And the journey has been exciting for me.

Better that than a fast paced story that I don't care about.

[xpyred]

Comic are overpriced period. I don't have a problem paying per issue though because I've enjoyed all of them and am excited about the story they are telling, even if it's slow. It's fun to read and I'm very entertained by it.

I understand if all you care about is getting to the destination in the story Spencer is telling, but to me it's mostly about the journey. And the journey has been exciting for me.

Better that than a fast paced story that I don't care about.

You're telling me that 11+ issues for this story is fine? That Harry spending literally 2 or 3 issues screaming CONFESS CONFESS is okay? At this point I think you're trolling.

[Vortex85]

You're telling me that 11+ issues for this story is fine? That Harry spending literally 2 or 3 issues screaming CONFESS CONFESS is okay? At this point I think you're trolling.

It was really 6 issues, .LRs were tacked on and optional and not needed. Im not mad they did them, I just think if if you want to save money they told you that it would be great story with just the base issues. Anyway, i think issue 53 and 54 could have been combined. Perhaps if there was no such thing as the LRs and issue 53 and 54 were combined you wouldn’t have the same complaint?

[Vortex85]

Anyway I got all 11 issues. There were 3-4 issues a month which totals to $12-16 per month for duration of this story for me. I can go blow more than that by picking up one burger king meal for my family for lunch.

[NC_Yankee]

It was really 6 issues, .LRs were tacked on and optional and not needed. Im not mad they did them, I just think if if you want to save money they told you that it would be great story with just the base issues. Anyway, i think issue 53 and 54 could have been combined. Perhaps if there was no such thing as the LRs and issue 53 and 54 were combined you wouldn’t have the same complaint?

My problem is not the financial aspect to this ( I spend a lot of money on watching sports ( MLB TV for Yankee Games is one example, so I have no right to complain about that)). My issue is I feel the entire story is stretched out and unnecessarily so. For example I do not get the purpose of Sin Eater unless it is A: To bring in other characters so Spencer can write them. B: To pad the story. C: To Trick the readers, Clone Saga Style. D: All of the above are true. I expect this soap opera to continue to at least ASM 900. How? I can see the injuring of MJ being used by Harry as some kind of “Proof” that he is right and Peter to actually buy his BS hook, like and sinker and thus see her removed from the book on Valentines Day as yet another way to see Peter hurt. To be honest I am sick of it.

[Vortex85]

I can see the injuring of MJ being used by Harry as some kind of “Proof” that he is right and Peter to actually buy his BS hook, like and sinker and thus see her removed from the book on Valentines Day as yet another way to see Peter hurt. To be honest I am sick of it.

You are sick of your own speculation?