The Spectacular Spider-Man Animated Series

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I do wonder what they implied about her in season 2 episode 1, when Curt says "Everyone deserves second chances" when they were having that dinner at Norman's house, Martha looked directly at her, and the camera even foccused on Emily, wonder what second chance they were implying that Emily needed.

I remember Greg talking about this. He said that Martha was looking at someone to back her up when everyone else was arguing that Peter deserved a second chance, but Emily didn't stayed out of it. So, Martha relented and gave Peter another chance.

The closest we got of her characterization was from the Radio Play crossover with Gargoyles. I know those aren't really canon, but I think we got a taste of what the post-season 2 plans where for the show, and she came off as pretty no nonsense.

That's fair. I was one of the people who hated them using Tombstone as Kingpin.

I think it worked fine for me. I always thought Tombstone was too good to be just an enforcer or a minor mob boss, and this was the boost he needed.

Considering they couldn't use Kingpin, who would you suggest as his replacement?

[PCN24454]

I think it worked fine for me. I always thought Tombstone was too good to be just an enforcer or a minor mob boss, and this was the boost he needed.

The main issue I had was them downplaying his personal history. Especially his interactions with Robbie. I always hate it when writers treat character backgrounds as though they’re interchangeable.

You got a great Kingpin but a terrible Tombstone.

Maybe he would’ve eventually gotten his story arc and origin, but I didn’t see much building up to it.

Considering they couldn't use Kingpin, who would you suggest as his replacement?

That being said, I can’t honestly think of who I’d use as an alternative, assuming we can’t create new characters. While Spider-Man has a lot of rogues who could technically fill the role, they’re still pretty low level themselves which defeats the point.

My only solution would be to put the “Kingpin” further in the background and have Spider-Man deal with proxies. It would help sell the untouchable vibe that Kingpin/Tombstone present that while Spider-Man knows that a kingpin exists, he’s never even met him.

[Lukmendes]

I remember Greg talking about this. He said that Martha was looking at someone to back her up when everyone else was arguing that Peter deserved a second chance, but Emily didn't stayed out of it. So, Martha relented and gave Peter another chance.

I would never guess that lol.

That does explain why the camera foccused on her though, to show she's not even paying attention.

The closest we got of her characterization was from the Radio Play crossover with Gargoyles. I know those aren't really canon, but I think we got a taste of what the post-season 2 plans where for the show, and she came off as pretty no nonsense.

Wasn't aware of that crossover, that all of her personality there? I figured that she'd talk in a bored/uninterested tone, does she sound like that?

[Frontier]

The main issue I had was them downplaying his personal history. Especially his interactions with Robbie. I always hate it when writers treat character backgrounds as though they’re interchangeable.

You got a great Kingpin but a terrible Tombstone.

Maybe he would’ve eventually gotten his story arc and origin, but I didn’t see much building up to it.

Yeah, it was kind of weird that in two seasons they never once referenced the history with Robbie, and this was a show that generally maximized character relationships and connections as much as it could.

That being said, I can’t honestly think of who I’d use as an alternative, assuming we can’t create new characters. While Spider-Man has a lot of rogues who could technically fill the role, they’re still pretty low level themselves which defeats the point.

My only solution would be to put the “Kingpin” further in the background and have Spider-Man deal with proxies. It would help sell the untouchable vibe that Kingpin/Tombstone present that while Spider-Man knows that a kingpin exists, he’s never even met him.

Silvermane's kind of an "old" Kingpin, even if he's never been depicted as being as in control as Fisk is (although in the 90's cartoon Fisk was trying to wipe him out).

Ultimate Hammerhead tried to be the next Kingpin.

[PCN24454]

Silvermans's kind of an "old" Kingpin, even if he's never been depicted as being as in control as Fisk is (although in the 90's cartoon Fisk was trying to wipe him out).

Ultimate Hammerhead tried to be the next Kingpin.

While Silvermane would’ve been a great alternative, Weisman already used him something else.

There are lots of crime bosses in Spider-Man mythos but they each fill different niches and don’t fit well into Fisks. Darthfury78 has been pushing for Black Widow/Spider-Man and I can think of a lot of villains that would be perfect for that kind of story, but they’re ultimately not Kingpin.

I’m flashingback to how poorly handled Hammerhead was in Spider-Man 2016...

[Mistah K88]

The main issue I had was them downplaying his personal history. Especially his interactions with Robbie. I always hate it when writers treat character backgrounds as though they’re interchangeable.

You got a great Kingpin but a terrible Tombstone.

To be fair, even Wilson Fisk wouldn’t be up to snuff as a simple powerful crime boss WITHOUT his family drama with his wife and son. I think Tombstone was used as the Big Man over a lot of the minor crime lords Spider-Man has in his rich history specifically because out of all of them, he’s the one who can also be a threat on a physical level as well. I will say that if Kingpin were ever to show up they would use the various gadgets that he had back in the day when he was similar to a Bond villain. I remember one of Kingpin’s feats was uniting all of the crime lords under his thumb, having Fisk clean up the vacuum Spider-Man created would be something to look forward to if he was ever used. Kingpin is basically the crime boss to end all crime bosses.

Maybe he would’ve eventually gotten his story arc and origin, but I didn’t see much building up to it.

I think knocking Tombstone off his perch in season 2 would have been a start in getting more of his background explored. Heck now that L. Thompson Lincoln can’t do his criminal dealings he’d probably have to lean on old friends. I think the Bugle cast sans Jonah didn’t get too much screen time, which I would assume the seeds were planted in season 2 (Ned having a goblin exposé in season 1 and Hobgoblin showing up in season 3, Lonnie is stuck under surveillance, etc)

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, it was kind of weird that in two seasons they never once referenced the history with Robbie, and this was a show that generally maximized character relationships and connections as much as it could.

Robbie got the short end of the stick unfortunately, hell, Randy too, one episode had him saying that John is like an older brother to him when it sounded like John's ship was gonna crash, and that's all we have, they never actually talk to each other, or about each other, after that.

Thinking of it, outside of JJ and Foswell, Daily Bugle's cast really didn't do much.

While Silvermane would’ve been a great alternative, Weisman already used him something else.

Well yeah, Silvermane was only used for something else a whole season after Tombstone already had Fisk's role and personality, doesn't mean Silvermane is not a more fitting stand-in for Fisk than Tombstone.

I’m flashingback to how poorly handled Hammerhead was in Spider-Man 2016...

He was also really awkward in PS4 Spidey, becoming pretty much a fusion of himself and Silvermane was really questionable, plus the way he got defeated... Yeah lol.

To be fair, even Wilson Fisk wouldn’t be up to snuff as a simple powerful crime boss WITHOUT his family drama with his wife and son. I think Tombstone was used as the Big Man over a lot of the minor crime lords Spider-Man has in his rich history specifically because out of all of them, he’s the one who can also be a threat on a physical level as well.

Silvermane also is a physical level threat, something Spectacular even kept despite the changes to his cybernetics (Just using an armor as opposed to being a robot/cyborg).

[Frontier]

I think knocking Tombstone off his perch in season 2 would have been a start in getting more of his background explored. Heck now that L. Thompson Lincoln can’t do his criminal dealings he’d probably have to lean on old friends. I think the Bugle cast sans Jonah didn’t get too much screen time, which I would assume the seeds were planted in season 2 (Ned having a goblin exposé in season 1 and Hobgoblin showing up in season 3, Lonnie is stuck under surveillance, etc)

It would've been ironic if getting ousted from being the Big Man would've made Tombstone more like his comic counterpart in terms of status.

Robbie got the short end of the stick unfortunately, hell, Randy too, one episode had him saying that John is like an older brother to him when it sounded like John's ship was gonna crash, and that's all we have, they never actually talk to each other, or about each other, after that.

Thinking of it, outside of JJ and Foswell, Daily Bugle's cast really didn't do much.

Yeah, although it still felt like a significant part of Peter's life, so that was appreciated.

Well yeah, Silvermane was only used for something else a whole season after Tombstone already had Fisk's role and personality, doesn't mean Silvermane is not a more fitting stand-in for Fisk than Tombstone.

Tombstone felt more cold and humorless compared to Fisk. At least to me.

[Mistah K88]

It would've been ironic if getting ousted from being the Big Man would've made Tombstone more like his comic counterpart in terms of status

They did say that the Tombstone/Robbie relationship was something planned for the show down the line...Perhaps Lonnie's succession into being a secret crime boss with good publicity in Robbie's "Uncle Ben" moment. Also...while it would have been impossible to plan this character as she showed up after the show's cancellation, I can totally buy that Spectacular's Tombstone has a daughter in law school right about now.


Also, I'd say it's worth noting that Hammerhead was a break out star in this show. For a flunky, he was definitely more entertaining than when I've seen him in other adaptations as his own man. Though he definitely was going to be one of the criminals who would be trying to gain the top dog status since Tombstone has been neutered and the last maniac to become the Big Man wasted resources in going after Spider-Man specifically and ended up "dying". I'm kind of curious to know what other crime lords would have popped out of the woodwork now that New York is a free for all.

Also, I'm kind of curious how long someone like Belladonna would stick around. (It was mentioned that Kingsley was a perfume mogul due to one of his first civilian stories in the comics, which is a hint to when Spidey kept having to protect him from this lady). She definitely was a character who didn't get a lot of use after her capture...

[Frontier]

Also, I'd say it's worth noting that Hammerhead was a break out star in this show. For a flunky, he was definitely more entertaining than when I've seen him in other adaptations as his own man. Though he definitely was going to be one of the criminals who would be trying to gain the top dog status since Tombstone has been neutered and the last maniac to become the Big Man wasted resources in going after Spider-Man specifically and ended up "dying". I'm kind of curious to know what other crime lords would have popped out of the woodwork now that New York is a free for all.

Also, I'm kind of curious how long someone like Belladonna would stick around. (It was mentioned that Kingsley was a perfume mogul due to one of his first civilian stories in the comics, which is a hint to when Spidey kept having to protect him from this lady). She definitely was a character who didn't get a lot of use after her capture...

Hammerhead didn't feel that far off from normal Hammerhead even if it was a while before we actually saw him fight Spidey and use his head, but I can definitely see him going into his own as a crime boss after he burned all his bridges and Osborn got the heck out of there.

[Lukmendes]

It would've been ironic if getting ousted from being the Big Man would've made Tombstone more like his comic counterpart in terms of status.

I honestly would like that, maybe it could be excused that he was an enforcer before becoming the Big Man, so this would be him going back to what he originally was, and leave a hint that he can return to power eventually, plus having him kill people directly could make Robbie remember the past, assuming they'd do it like the comics, though they'd need to properly explain why Robbie never reacted to Tombstone before lol.

Yeah, although it still felt like a significant part of Peter's life, so that was appreciated.

Yeah but unfortunately characters there deidn't do much, at least Ned was starting to do something though.

Tombstone felt more cold and humorless compared to Fisk. At least to me.

He was also less cruel, since while he controls everyone by using fear, he doesn't go killing at random whoever screws up, nor is that implied, which is smarter anyways, controlling by fear only goes so far if screw ups can get you killed, and someone like Fisk would become hated and probably have been killed already lol.

Also, I'd say it's worth noting that Hammerhead was a break out star in this show. For a flunky, he was definitely more entertaining than when I've seen him in other adaptations as his own man. Though he definitely was going to be one of the criminals who would be trying to gain the top dog status since Tombstone has been neutered and the last maniac to become the Big Man wasted resources in going after Spider-Man specifically and ended up "dying". I'm kind of curious to know what other crime lords would have popped out of the woodwork now that New York is a free for all.

I don't think Hammerhead would really become a Kingpin or whatever, the characters point out that he's only talented to be an enforcer, and while one episode makes it look like he'd stopped being like that, it's later revealed he's working for Green Goblin, so I doubt he'd ever amount to anything much, just working for the next "Big Man".

[Snoop Dogg]

this show's ny crime thread was so goddamn good it made me not want kingpin, imagine doing ny marvel crime so good you make THE KINGPIN unnecessary

[Mistah K88]

I don't think Hammerhead would really become a Kingpin or whatever, the characters point out that he's only talented to be an enforcer, and while one episode makes it look like he'd stopped being like that, it's later revealed he's working for Green Goblin, so I doubt he'd ever amount to anything much, just working for the next "Big Man".

Oh Hammerhead is definitely not top dog material, the other crime lords point this out when he betrayed Tombstone. He didn't even question why a gun concealed in flowers was sent to him...Norman played this guy like a sucker. While I think he would be a force to be reckoned with if the Gang War storyline continued, he would have been chasing a title that he was never going to get. To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure that there'd be a Kingpin/Big Man position due to all of the fighting and new faces popping up.

Aside from Kingpin and POSSIBLY Foswell/Big Man (he died trying to get that spot back) have any of the crime lords in Spider-Man comics been able to have the majority of crime under them? I remember seeing a lot of fighting between gangs to claim that position...but I don't think too many have held it.

[Frontier]

this show's ny crime thread was so goddamn good it made me not want kingpin, imagine doing ny marvel crime so good you make THE KINGPIN unnecessary

In some regards its a nice contrast to how much Kingpin dominated the 90's show (and Smythe, who also wasn't even referenced in Spec).

And Mr. Negative would've likely joined in the fun had they continued...

Oh Hammerhead is definitely not top dog material, the other crime lords point this out when he betrayed Tombstone. He didn't even question why a gun concealed in flowers was sent to him...Norman played this guy like a sucker. While I think he would be a force to be reckoned with if the Gang War storyline continued, he would have been chasing a title that he was never going to get. To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure that there'd be a Kingpin/Big Man position due to all of the fighting and new faces popping up.

Aside from Kingpin and POSSIBLY Foswell/Big Man (he died trying to get that spot back) have any of the crime lords in Spider-Man comics been able to have the majority of crime under them? I remember seeing a lot of fighting between gangs to claim that position...but I don't think too many have held it.

I think Hobby and The Rose got close.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Wasn't aware of that crossover, that all of her personality there? I figured that she'd talk in a bored/uninterested tone, does she sound like that?

I'd say she's as harsh and no nonsense as her husband. I don't know if she's as much of a monster, but she would definitely be a collaborator.

The play's here if you or anyone is curious. It has a lot of the voice cast for both shows.

And Mr. Negative would've likely joined in the fun had they continued...

I wonder how they would've handled him. Would they have gone with the Jekyll/Hyde dynamic since none of his major non-comic adaptations have used it? I think it would set him apart well from the other mob bosses, especially since this show didn't use that characterization for Green Goblin or Lizard.