Is anyone else sick of the DC bashing?

[LoneNecromancer]

For some reason there are DC posters who think more people are happy at the Marvel boards. A lot of posters hate the ANAD Marvel. They hate the Inhumans, they hated Dr. Octopus, the new Captain America, the New Thor, lack of FF, etc etc etc. A lot of negativity on the other border.

Not to mention a lot of animosity between some of the Avengers and X-Men fans, which is honestly way more heated and genuine than any of the guys over here.

[dancj]

I don't think this stuff descends from HEAT. (Who, by the way, were RIGHT, weren't they?)

No

Most of the belly-aching today seems to come from older guys who want to keep things the way they've always been. As in, don't go digital and close the comics shops, don't change anything about the characters who have never sold the way they are now, don't reboot your universe, don't get rid of decompressed storytelling, don't stop catering to my unpopular niche tastes even though there's no money in it for you, and so on.

You pretty much just described HEAT.

[Trey Strain]

No


You pretty much just described HEAT.

Geoff Johns was a member, which at the time was a big secret. He might disagree with you. His Rebirth story was exactly what HEAT wanted, down to the smallest detail, and nobody even noticed.

[byrd156]

I don't believe I said that every older reader was against every one of those changes, did I? But older readers tend to be the ones who oppose such things. I don't need to know what you or any particular person thinks about any particular issue to know that.

When changes are enacted, older readers tend to be among the loudest voices opposing them. Why? Because they have a longer investment in the way things are being done now than younger people do.

That tendency isn't peculiar to comic books either. It's a general principle. It's particularly problematic among dedicated customers who have aged out of the target demographic.

What is an older reader to you? I've been reading almost all my life(I'm 17) and I love what came before and can't stand stand what DC is currently pushing out. Does that make me an older reader?

[Trey Strain]

What is an older reader to you? I've been reading almost all my life(I'm 17) and I love what came before and can't stand stand what DC is currently pushing out. Does that make me an older reader?

A good rule of thumb is that if you're no longer in demand on the dating scene, you're no longer in demand by marketers either. If you've accepted the former about yourself, it should be no big leap to go ahead and accept the latter too.

Your expiration date hasn't passed yet.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I don't believe I said that every older reader was against every one of those changes, did I? But older readers tend to be the ones who oppose such things. I don't need to know what you or any particular person thinks about any particular issue to know that.

When changes are enacted, older readers tend to be among the loudest voices opposing them. Why? Because they have a longer investment in the way things are being done now than younger people do.

That tendency isn't peculiar to comic books either. It's a general principle. It's particularly problematic among dedicated customers who have aged out of the target demographic.

I think the problem is that you seem to conflate "opposes a particular change" with "is opposed to change." When you see a fan (who may be older, or may not) do the former, you extrapolate to the latter.

[Trey Strain]

Nope. Older people are more likely to oppose change. That's all.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Nope. Older people are more likely to oppose change. That's all.

I'm glad you know us all so well. Otherwise we would walk through the world confused.

[Doctor Bifrost]

A good rule of thumb is that if you're no longer in demand on the dating scene, you're no longer in demand by marketers either. If you've accepted the former about yourself, it should be no big leap to go ahead and accept the latter too.

Many of my friends of roughly my age - the single ones - are still in the dating scene.

And you should see what goes on in senior-citizen communities.

People leave the dating scene when they get into a relationship. (Sometimes not even then.) That aside, at what age do you think they stop?

[Trey Strain]

Many of my friends of roughly my age - the single ones - are still in the dating scene.

And you should see what goes on in senior-citizen communities.

People leave the dating scene when they get into a relationship. (Sometimes not even then.) That aside, at what age do you think they stop?

When you have to keep telling someone that you didn't say something or other, you need to stop talking to him. That's what I'm doing with you.

[Rockym]

Geoff Johns was a member, which at the time was a big secret. He might disagree with you. His Rebirth story was exactly what HEAT wanted, down to the smallest detail, and nobody even noticed.

No surprise there. Geoff Johns has always been about personal "wish fulfillment" and making all his fanboy fantasies come true. IMO, he's one of the biggest problems at DC and needs to be let go or fired before they can get better.

[Prisoner 6655321]

Oftentimes people go overboard, sometimes ridiculously so. There's no need to take things personal or make them personal. It always seems absurd to me when people try to accuse / call out individuals at DC for having some kinda evil agenda or something along those lines.I also think it's pretty silly when people's “demands” become so specific that if those demands were met it'd essentially reduce professionally done comic books to fan fic or literature by democracy. That said, I still feel that DC is making a lot of “bad choices” (obviously, this is subjective) and has been for some time and that if you, as a sincere enthusiast of the genre / medium feel the urge to spell out what you see as being bad directions taken by DC then by all means, you should spell out those shortcomings.

Some change is good, some is bad, what's important is the nature and reason(s) for those changes. Obviously this is hyperbole but using the sort of logic “those fans hate change” is oversimplifying something to the extreme but there were folks in Germany back in the 1920's that said “Man, I dunno if I should stick around for this Nazi shit” according to some of the logic professed here, these negative Nancies were just holding back progress, right? Obviously not, and to reiterate (not that I should need to), post-Flashpoint is nowhere as bad as the Beer Hall Putsch.

It is not my stance that it was Flashpoint that made dc “bad” nor was it the beginning of DC's “problems”. I don't think they really need another reboot per se but I also don't think Flashpoint made anything better, in fact it only compounded the problem. More than that, I think it kinda represents a point where DC had a marked change in strategy. It's wrong to suggest there haven't been good DC comics after Flashpoint or that any particular era was a paragon of all that was great about DC/ Wildstorm / DCU gone Vertigo but there has been a lot of great material over a large span of time and they're still making things as good as Multiversity (which was pretty amazingly great) in the recent past. That said, while it was floundering before, after Flashpoint things have felt much more limited & constrained, less organic & vast. It has felt very much to me that the comics have essentially become derivatives of thier own derivatives, licensed image-lifestyle products based on properties derived from those same products in a earlier state when they once existed by their own virtue (that last sentence owes its existence to the ashes of the Situationist International). I know this philosophy isn't shared by everyone on here but … Yes, DC is a company and they want to make money. There's nothing wrong with that and more so it's simply the way it is. That said, we as readers don't need to make that our priority, in fact doing so is kinda absurd. Unless you're a shareholder, profits are not your concern, quality is. If you like what you're reading, that's fine and good but if you don't, then by all means, you should speak up.

This time last year I was picking up about 18 DC issues a month, this year the number is 0. That's not to say I'm not reading any DC comics though, I live in an area with a great public library system and I generally follow just as many series as are on my pull list through trades at the library. Buying the series which I am most enthusiastic for and waiting for the library to get the trades for the others. I've been doing this for a number of years now and I suggest it to anyone who lives near a good library system. My point being, it is not so simple as “If you don't think it's great you shouldn't be buying it, if you're not buying it you're not reading it so you shouldn't have an opinion”.

I'm done ranting for now.

[Trey Strain]

No surprise there. Geoff Johns has always been about personal "wish fulfillment" and making all his fanboy fantasies come true. IMO, he's one of the biggest problems at DC and needs to be let go or fired before they can get better.

Not true ar all, He has sold a TON of comics for DC. I didn't like the emotional spectrum and knew that it would tank sooner or later, but otherwise he's been a positive force.

[Trey Strain]

Oftentimes people go overboard, sometimes ridiculously so. There's no need to take things personal or make them personal. It always seems absurd to me when people try to accuse / call out individuals at DC for having some kinda evil agenda or something along those lines.I also think it's pretty silly when people's “demands” become so specific that if those demands were met it'd essentially reduce professionally done comic books to fan fic or literature by democracy. That said, I still feel that DC is making a lot of “bad choices” (obviously, this is subjective) and has been for some time and that if you, as a sincere enthusiast of the genre / medium feel the urge to spell out what you see as being bad directions taken by DC then by all means, you should spell out those shortcomings.

Some change is good, some is bad, what's important is the nature and reason(s) for those changes. Obviously this is hyperbole but using the sort of logic “those fans hate change” is oversimplifying something to the extreme but there were folks in Germany back in the 1920's that said “Man, I dunno if I should stick around for this Nazi shit” according to some of the logic professed here, these negative Nancies were just holding back progress, right? Obviously not, and to reiterate (not that I should need to), post-Flashpoint is nowhere as bad as the Beer Hall Putsch.

It is not my stance that it was Flashpoint that made dc “bad” nor was it the beginning of DC's “problems”. I don't think they really need another reboot per se but I also don't think Flashpoint made anything better, in fact it only compounded the problem. More than that, I think it kinda represents a point where DC had a marked change in strategy. It's wrong to suggest there haven't been good DC comics after Flashpoint or that any particular era was a paragon of all that was great about DC/ Wildstorm / DCU gone Vertigo but there has been a lot of great material over a large span of time and they're still making things as good as Multiversity (which was pretty amazingly great) in the recent past. That said, while it was floundering before, after Flashpoint things have felt much more limited & constrained, less organic & vast. It has felt very much to me that the comics have essentially become derivatives of thier own derivatives, licensed image-lifestyle products based on properties derived from those same products in a earlier state when they once existed by their own virtue (that last sentence owes its existence to the ashes of the Situationist International). I know this philosophy isn't shared by everyone on here but … Yes, DC is a company and they want to make money. There's nothing wrong with that and more so it's simply the way it is. That said, we as readers don't need to make that our priority, in fact doing so is kinda absurd. Unless you're a shareholder, profits are not your concern, quality is. If you like what you're reading, that's fine and good but if you don't, then by all means, you should speak up.

This time last year I was picking up about 18 DC issues a month, this year the number is 0. That's not to say I'm not reading any DC comics though, I live in an area with a great public library system and I generally follow just as many series as are on my pull list through trades at the library. Buying the series which I am most enthusiastic for and waiting for the library to get the trades for the others. I've been doing this for a number of years now and I suggest it to anyone who lives near a good library system. My point being, it is not so simple as “If you don't think it's great you shouldn't be buying it, if you're not buying it you're not reading it so you shouldn't have an opinion”.

I'm done ranting for now.

Nazi comparisons are never cool. Don't do that. And it's too bad you're not buying. but the New 52 was a BIG success for DC. They'll take that tradeoff, I'm sure.

[Götterdämmerung]

Not true ar all, He has sold a TON of comics for DC. I didn't like the emotional spectrum and knew that it would tank sooner or later, but otherwise he's been a positive force.

I LOVED the Johns Lantern/emotional spectrum and his GL and Justice League runs in general. He's been inconsistent in all the titles he's been involved with, but like Morrison when he's on he's really ON. I have a hard time considering Johns as the "problem" with DC, in fact I really don't see DC as having too many problems in general. DC to me is what Marvel was back in the 70s: the tops of the big two, at least in terms of comics. While Marvel's comic output has seemed to suffer in favor of moviemaking, DC has relatively flourished (a case could be made for the superiority of DC in the animated world as well).

Sure, the latest runs of Batman, Superman/Action Comics and most particularly my favorite, Green Lantern, are far from the best they've been, but they're still strong enough to continue following imo. The Justice League, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, The Flash, JLA...I wouldn't miss an issue.

Just my opinion.