Jane Thor vs Carol Danvers

[Frontier]

Like I said, I am well and truly ready for Thor to have Mjolnir back. This wallowing in self pity has gone on long enough.

But for me that doesn't change the fact that Jane has been heroic in swinging the hammer.

And quite frankly, what they have done with Carol in the last five years makes me nostalgic for the previous Captain Marvel. I would hardly say the writing has done the legacy any justice.

No doubt, because she actually gets to be written as Thor .

You're nostalgic for Noh-Varr?

I always forget that period of his career. I honestly thought the last one was Phyla.

[brettc1]

No doubt, because she actually gets to be written as Thor .

Actually I would say she is written as Jane. Even if Thor were written as Thor there would be a difference.

I suppose you could saw a lot of us wish Carol was written as Carol, but it's been so long now that I'm not sure I remember what that is like

Actually - maybe the problem is that Carol and Thor are written kinda the same. She drinks a lot less [obviously] but they are both so caught up in proving their worth that it's mentally tiring reading about them.

[Hizashi]

Actually I would say she is written as Jane. Even if Thor were written as Thor there would be a difference.

I suppose you could saw a lot of us wish Carol was written as Carol, but it's been so long now that I'm not sure I remember what that is like

Actually - maybe the problem is that Carol and Thor are written kinda the same. She drinks a lot less [obviously] but they are both so caught up in proving their worth that it's mentally tiring reading about them.

Jane is written better than Carol in my book, but Thor wouldn't be written the way he is now if he hadn't been made Unworthy, so it's not the same.

[kilderkin]

I think jane is currently much better than carol

For me carols light as a hero has waned since CW2 and not recovered imo

Right now and for a few years I think janes way in front

Career wise not, but that's different to my point

[Sutekh]

After Civil War 2 was a perfect time to start playing Carol up but.. Mystique chair wielding lookalikes is the direction Stohl decided to go in. Hell imagine a Kree/Shiar war Carol gets dragged into.

Carol interacting with more cosmic/space folk like the Shiar Imperial Guard would indeed be pretty cool, or involving other space/cosmic folk like Hulkling and his ties to the Skrull throne, or Karolina Dean and Majesdanian politics, or 'Bob' the Uranian from Agents of Atlas, or even Marrina and the Plodex on Earth (and elsewhere, which would probably be super-relevant, since she's hanging out with some of Marrina's old Alpha Flight teammates...).

Carol just needs better storylines, something half as glorious as what Jane is getting.

[Frontier]

Carol interacting with more cosmic/space folk like the Shiar Imperial Guard would indeed be pretty cool, or involving other space/cosmic folk like Hulkling and his ties to the Skrull throne, or Karolina Dean and Majesdanian politics, or 'Bob' the Uranian from Agents of Atlas, or even Marrina and the Plodex on Earth (and elsewhere, which would probably be super-relevant, since she's hanging out with some of Marrina's old Alpha Flight teammates...).

Carol just needs better storylines, something half as glorious as what Jane is getting.

It shouldn't be that hard to get her involved with the Shi'ar given Deathbird is one of her villains, dating back to the Ms. Marvel days.

[Colossus1980]

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

Jane Thor's comic run is memorable. Most of Carol's comics are forgettable. You have to wonder why Marvel is not paying for top talent to work on their 'Wonder Woman'.

[Hizashi]

Some people have legitimate qualms about both characters, but Jane Thor has a good story and a clear direction, and has been part of a large multi-year story arc. What about Carol? I think forgettable describes her book very well, and it's a travesty what's been done to her in trying to make her Marvel's answer to Wonder Woman. Personally, I don't think Marvel has any female character that comes close to WW, and that definitely includes Carol.

[Drops Of Venus]

I guess it just really comes down to this: Jane rose to success very organically while Carol has been the ''fetch'' of the MU, as much as it pains me to say, because I DO like the character. I'm not even one of those people who think she has to go back to being Ms. Marvel ASAP, as I think the Cap. Marvel move made sense. That was organic. Actually, I'd say KSD's run was very organic and I think most people probably agree that she was the one who handled Carol the best. The problem is that ever since KSD left, Marvel doesn't seem to really know what to do with the character and her whole characterization and stories have just been going downhill ever since. I do wish they would put her solo on hold (although I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is some sort of higher-up mandate for her to be featured in a solo book because of the movie franchise coming up; they need source material and Carol hasn't been Cap. for all that long) and just let her breathe for a while, maybe just using her in an Avengers title, until they figure out the best way to tell her story.

But YASSS, let's all agree on Jane (well, except for some bitter Odinson fans). She's just terrific. Best heroine Marvel has right now. Even after her run as Thor comes to an end, Marvel would have to be CRAZY to not keep using her in some way.

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

I keep reading this, but I'm not sure if I agree if that's precisely the issue here. Was Brian Reed considered a comic book A-list star when he wrote Carol as Ms. Marvel? Because that is considered her most sucessful modern run (it lasted for over 50 issues, IIRC). I mean, was G. Willow Wilson a comic book A-list star when she turned Kamala into a breakout star? While I think a big name could help, I don't think it's the defining factor here. I have this theory that the Captain Marvel name, for some reason, is just harder to sell. Carol as Cap. had a hard time from the get-go: as praised as KSD's run was, the sales weren't all that impressive. And this is not just a Carol thing: Captain Marvel, as a title, is historically known to struggle in sales, going way back to the Mar-Vell days. Multiple people have used the title, and none of them truly took it to the A-list level. It is very known that Marvel kept the title alive for trademark reasons, and it's very likely Carol was the biggest promoted one because of the MCU. So, maybe, it's just that: maybe Captain Marvel just doesn't work as a solo title like Marvel would want. Maybe the movies will change that perception; maybe they won't. Time will tell, I guess.

At least Carol taking over her identity didn't lead to Mar-Vell being deemed "unworthy" or thrown under the bus.

At least Odinson will never ever fade into obscurity and will have his due sooner or later because he's just that important to the publisher. That's a lot more than fans of Mar-Vell, Monica Rambeau, Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell and Noh-Varr can say. Heck, I'd take those characters getting the Odinson treatment over how they are treated right now any day. At least they would be on actual stories and not just permanently killed or in constant limbo.

[JudicatorPrime]

Jane's book is better written. Carol has been lumped with C-list talent and Marvel wonders why her book remains a C-list book. She needs a star to help her break out.

Do you mean Carol's creative teams were C-list talent?

[JudicatorPrime]

Sorry for getting off topic, but Jane will still be a Thor even when Odinson regains his mantle, right? There's still the Ultimate-verse hammer running around, isn't there? Maybe she gets that one???

[Agatha's Ghost]

Jane Foster is an inspiring character truly worthy of the mantle of Thor who has deep roots in Marvel continuity. Carol Danvers is a repeat amnesiac with no core personality of her own. She simply fits the editorial mandate for "strong female character" and Marvel trots her out whenever they want to show that they have women characters in their IP stable. If they want a strong non X-Woman female character, then truly push Janet Van Dyne, Jennifer Walters, Susan Storm, Valeria Richards (aka Voyager), Monica Rambeau, Wanda Maximoff, Hellcat, or any of the other women who are truly beloved for who they are by the fans. In the meantime, I would prefer to read about Jane Foster and Rogue over Carol Danvers, any day of the week.

[Frontier]

At least Odinson will never ever fade into obscurity and will have his due sooner or later because he's just that important to the publisher. That's a lot more than fans of Mar-Vell, Monica Rambeau, Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell and Noh-Varr can say. Heck, I'd take those characters getting the Odinson treatment over how they are treated right now any day. At least they would be on actual stories and not just permanently killed or in constant limbo.

Kinda feels like choosing between two evils, if I'm honest, but at least Monica and Noh-Varr generally get used (and used well) now and again and it seems like Phyla might be coming back (or so I've heard from Duggans Guardians).

Conversely being "important to the publisher" can backfire because that affords more opportunities to screw the character up. Just look at Carol and Civil War II or even how badly Tony was characterized in that event and the original.

Sorry for getting off topic, but Jane will still be a Thor even when Odinson regains his mantle, right? There's still the Ultimate-verse hammer running around, isn't there? Maybe she gets that one???

Jane's been a financial success so Marvel will probably find a way for her to stick around even once Thor becomes the main Thor again.

[Drops Of Venus]

Sorry for getting off topic, but Jane will still be a Thor even when Odinson regains his mantle, right? There's still the Ultimate-verse hammer running around, isn't there? Maybe she gets that one???

I don't know. I don't think anyone but Jason Aaron and Marvel knows. Part of me thinks they want to give her an epic Mar-Vell like death, but part of me also thinks they may not want to let go of her success.

As for hammers, who knows... apparently, there's this golden hammer now too, which is GORGEOUS (*starts to sing Taylor Swift song*) and it looks like it's going to be Odinson's hammer from now on?? You know, I think it'd be pretty ballsy if Marvel decided to give him a new, permanent hammer. But if not, maybe they can give it to Jane, as it is REALLY GORGEOUS (*ends Taylor Swift song*).

[Frontier]

I don't know. I don't think anyone but Jason Aaron and Marvel knows. Part of me thinks they want to give her an epic Mar-Vell like death, but part of me also thinks they may not want to let go of her success.

As for hammers, who knows... apparently, there's this golden hammer now too, which is GORGEOUS (*starts to sing Taylor Swift song*) and it looks like it's going to be Odinson's hammer from now on?? You know, I think it'd be pretty ballsy if Marvel decided to give him a new, permanent hammer. But if not, maybe they can give it to Jane, as it is REALLY GORGEOUS (*ends Taylor Swift song*).

I think there's honestly a bit too much gold with Thor's new look (I don't think it would work well with Jane either) .