Avengers 20, we are at peak Aaron people!

[Prof. Warren]

Let's remember one thing: She-Hulk is a fictional character, not a real person. In the real world, people is free to radically change their views of life (or have it changed becaused of some traumatic event, such as a rape), but a fictional character has to stay consistent to be credible. A character may be changed, but it would require to be properly justified and had a previous set up, and then used for a good story that justifies the change.

Fictional characters are free to put through changes.

There's no rule that says they must remain locked into an unchanging mold in order to be credible. Often times changes are needed in order to keep a character fresh and maintain interest.

As for justifying any change with a "properly justified good story", judging such a work is entirely subjective. As much as some will complain about what Aaron is doing with Jen, others will say they love or like the choices he's making.

[Ultimate Captain America]

Let me clarify: Anything can be done with a character. Literally anything. But if you want the public to accept what you did and go on with it... then there are rules to follow.

As for a justified story, let me put an example: Iron Man. The way he was created first, he had no issues with alcohol. Then they made "Demon in a bottle". It was a change, but it was not contradictory with his previous characterization, and it was used to narrate an actual story.

She-Hulk? The change not only openly contradicts her previous characterization, it was also pointless. It has not been used for anything.

And yes, there is a rule that characters have to remain consistent. Step out of the comic book niche, and look at the world of films. With very limited exceptions, when you make a film about a character from an older film (sequel, prequel, spinoff or whatever), you can be sure that it will follow the characterization of the films that made it noteworthy, at least in its most noticeable traits (film quality notwithstanding). Yes, that restrains creativity a bit, and that's why most films are about brand new characters instead.

[Prof. Warren]

She-Hulk? The change not only openly contradicts her previous characterization, it was also pointless. It has not been used for anything.

You mean this very new change that is part of an ongoing arc that we've been explicitly told in-story - as recently as the current issue - is leading towards major developments ahead for Jen? That's what you want to say "has not been used for anything?"

Also, what Aaron's doing doesn't contradict her previous characterization so much as it adds to it. Aaron's saying that we didn't know as much as we thought we did about Jen and is showing another side to her.

[Frontier]

Also, what Aaron's doing doesn't contradict her previous characterization so much as it adds to it. Aaron's saying that we didn't know as much as we thought we did about Jen and is showing another side to her.

I think it's a contradiction in as far as, while I can believe Jen would probably have had those issues as a female Superhero, her powers and personality have always conveyed she'd address it far differently then what Aaron is going for.

[Prof. Warren]

I think it's a contradiction in as far as, while I can believe Jen would probably have had those issues as a female Superhero, her powers and personality have always conveyed she'd address it far differently then what Aaron is going for.

You're not talking about a contradiction.

You're talking about you thinking a character would behave in a certain way based on your understanding of the character and the writer making a different choice based on their understanding.

Both choices may be defendable but only one is being made by the actual writer currently steering the character's direction.

[Triniking1234]

Was the Hulk himself ever almost raped?

Probably not.

While sexual harassment can happen to anyone, I think it'd be a lot harder to make a case that Bruce experienced the kind of chronic abuse that Jen - or any woman - would encounter on a daily basis.

I'm just passing through to say the Hulk was raped by Maestro's concubines during Future Imperfect and Peter David did an issue where he talked to Doc Sampson about it.

[Ptrvc]

I'm just passing through to say the Hulk was raped by Maestro's concubines during Future Imperfect and Peter David did an issue where he talked to Doc Sampson about it.

And there was the time those two guys went after Bruce in a public shower.

[Prof. Warren]

I'm just passing through to say the Hulk was raped by Maestro's concubines during Future Imperfect and Peter David did an issue where he talked to Doc Sampson about it.

Ok. Interesting to note. But not really the kind of thing that Jen is talking about.

Isolated instances of sexual assault are traumatic, of course, but what Jen is talking about is chronic harassment - when it becomes part of the daily fabric of your life.

The kind of harassment where, when women attempt to talk about it, is routinely dismissed as trivial. "Oh, so somebody made a lewd comment or made a pass at you. You weren't raped, were you? Didn't think so."

It's very telling that many of the critical fans here include examples of Bruce having far worse experiences, as if to prove that Jen doesn't have a right to complain. It's an identical reaction to what we see in real life in these cases.

[Celgress]

Let's remember one thing: She-Hulk is a fictional character, not a real person. In the real world, people is free to radically change their views of life (or have it changed becaused of some traumatic event, such as a rape), but a fictional character has to stay consistent to be credible. A character may be changed, but it would require to be properly justified and had a previous set up, and then used for a good story that justifies the change. Nothing of that happens here. The change comes completely from out of nowhere, and have not been significant or required for any new stories so far.

Bravo, nice summation of why this is so wrong from a character development standpoint.

[Frontier]

You're not talking about a contradiction.

You're talking about you thinking a character would behave in a certain way based on your understanding of the character and the writer making a different choice based on their understanding.

Both choices may be defendable but only one is being made by the actual writer currently steering the character's direction.

Considering I don't think Aaron really understands She-Hulk's character that well (or if he does, very inconsistently and surface-level), then I hope another writer gets more creative control over She-Hulk soon...

Ok. Interesting to note. But not really the kind of thing that Jen is talking about.

Isolated instances of sexual assault are traumatic, of course, but what Jen is talking about is chronic harassment - when it becomes part of the daily fabric of your life.

The kind of harassment where, when women attempt to talk about it, is routinely dismissed as trivial. "Oh, so somebody made a lewd comment or made a pass at you. You weren't raped, were you? Didn't think so."

It's very telling that many of the critical fans here include examples of Bruce having far worse experiences, as if to prove that Jen doesn't have a right to complain. It's an identical reaction to what we see in real life in these cases.

I don't think the issue so much is her complaining but the fact that she's trying to equivocate it to what Bruce has to go through.

Is what Jen has to go through awful, demeaning, and completely wrong? Yes. But as She-Hulk she's demonstrated a level of control and ability to respond to it in a way Bruce never has been able to with his issues because she's in control and able to live out her life as a strong, confident, woman no matter what gets thrown at her. She has every right to complain but they aren't equivalent circumstances in my opinion.

[Agent Z]

Where did i say that sexual harassment and rape are the same thing?

When you said that Bruce had never gone through anything Jen hadn't.

[jetengine]

I think one of the issues here is that Jen is conflating her issues with Bruces. Her issues are terrible to deal with (because sexual harrasment is shit) however they dont really compare on a scaling to the shit Bruce goes through.

Jens superhero life hasnt been 90% going from city to city to avoid being hunted like an animal, terrified that if he snaps he'll destroy a city and kill someone. She's used her Hulk form as a confidence booster ffs whilst Bruce spends years trying to get rid of his.

[KangMiRae]

Hamfisting insults at a certain audience is always so tacky, I don’t know why writers do it.

Then again, I’ve known Aaron’s writing was bad since issue 1-7

[kilderkin]

You're not talking about a contradiction.

You're talking about you thinking a character would behave in a certain way based on your understanding of the character and the writer making a different choice based on their understanding.

Both choices may be defendable but only one is being made by the actual writer currently steering the character's direction.

Or correctly understanding how a character was being written at the time, and correctly understanding how those events are now being reinterpreted to afford the new direction the current writer wants them to be seen

Which is what I think is the case here

It's totally in the writers role to do that, but it doesn't mean we don't spot it

[NexusTenebrare]

Ok. Interesting to note. But not really the kind of thing that Jen is talking about.

Isolated instances of sexual assault are traumatic, of course, but what Jen is talking about is chronic harassment - when it becomes part of the daily fabric of your life.

The kind of harassment where, when women attempt to talk about it, is routinely dismissed as trivial. "Oh, so somebody made a lewd comment or made a pass at you. You weren't raped, were you? Didn't think so."

It's very telling that many of the critical fans here include examples of Bruce having far worse experiences, as if to prove that Jen doesn't have a right to complain. It's an identical reaction to what we see in real life in these cases.

It's also very telling that you are dismissing an example of actual rape as being less bad than chronic groping and catcalls.
Both are horrible, but I'm guessing that when asked most people and especially victims of such acts wouldn't call an isolated instance of rape to be the lesser of these two evils.