Impact of Marvel and DC Films on Past & Future Films in the CBM Genre

[Beaddle]

Its not a conspiracy theory, its just a very possible studio strategy. especially a studio that almost went down under because the media went nuts over the darkness of Batman v Superman. it could very well be possible, WB only played light for a while before the Joker unleashing.

[Vakanai]

I guess they haven't proven themselves yet? I mean, they seemed to be on a rise with Wonder Woman and then Justice League happened.

Again, that was Snyder, and he's gone. Everything not touched by Snyder has been great, so why does the hesitation continue when the only problem has been solved for a while now?

[Beaddle]

Again, that was Snyder, and he's gone. Everything not touched by Snyder has been great, so why does the hesitation continue when the only problem has been solved for a while now?

Yes, very true. the same also applies to marvel fox, dark phoenix and Apocalypse even X3 were mostly Kinberg and he should have been fired a while back, apart from that WB like Fox did have more sense than none in getting their stuff right but you see with Marvel Disney, they see studio, they don't see directors or writers who come and go. I don't know why they keep tying to convince me marvel is director driven even with the evidence many of their directors have quit it or has said negative things about their experience directing a Marvel Disney film.

[Vakanai]

Yes, very true. the same also applies to marvel fox, dark phoenix and Apocalypse even X3 were mostly Kinberg and he should have been fired a while back, apart from that WB like Fox did have more sense than none in getting their stuff right but you see with Marvel Disney, they see studio, they don't see directors or writers who come and go. I don't know why they keep tying to convince me marvel is director driven even with the evidence many of their directors have quit it or has said negative things about their experience directing a Marvel Disney film.

That post was somewhat unclear to me, could you clarify the point a bit more? Feels like a continuation of an argument I didn't read.

[Beaddle]

That post was somewhat unclear to me, could you clarify the point a bit more? Feels like a continuation of an argument I didn't read.

One of the impact of marvel unlike DC is the love for the studio itself not for the individual movies. Case in focus. In DC, A film like Joker or Wonder Woman, does not negate criticism toward Warner Brothers for Justice League because WB chose the wrong directors.For Marvel Studios, all their movies receive the same amount of praise because some just love the studio itself and will put their love for the studio first, which will prevent them from giving deserved criticisms to their weakest movies. DC with WB does not function like that.

[ComicJunkie21]

One of the impact of marvel unlike DC is the love for the studio itself not for the individual movies. Case in focus. In DC, A film like Joker or Wonder Woman, does not negate criticism toward Warner Brothers for Justice League because WB chose the wrong directors.For Marvel Studios, all their movies receive the same amount of praise because some just love the studio itself and will put their love for the studio first, which will prevent them for giving deserved criticism to their weakest movies. DC with WB does not function like that.

Marvel has brand name recognition for their films but they have always been like that. Even when they were only creating comics, it was always Marvel brand first, character second, storyline third. DC is the opposite its always been character first, storyline second, and then brand is dead last.

While most people know what DC is, less people probably know what it stands for and even less people can tell you who created the characters. However, most people could tell you what Marvel is and who Stan Lee is without trying to hard. That is the brand they built and when you look at both companies, it's easy to see how Marvel has become more successful because their model translated well to what they wanted to do in film. DC comic model didn't really translate to Marvel's film model, which is what they tried to do. DC may not have the brand recognition like Marvel but they have more iconic characters which is an advantage. In all reality DC didn't need to do world building to the same extent as Marvel did because they had all of the iconic characters, they just needed proper story execution. I'd say the only characters that may have needed their solo films were WW and Aquaman. Superman didn't need his solo film first and heck Batman could've popped up mid film and it would've been fine if the script was good and executed properly. Remember the animated Justice League tv series?

People love DC too but WB needed to listen to DC and not the executives meddling all the time. Which is now happening.

IMO, Marvel will be forced to reboot at some point in the next few years to keep toys and merchandise selling. Marvel isn't the best at reinventing their stories. Disney is going to want to keep Iron Man, Captain America, and Hulk toys selling and in order to keep them selling the characters need to be kept in front of kids faces through some medium. That's why WB has had 6 different live action Batmans in less than 30 years and not to mention about 5 or 6 Batman animated series since the 90s.

[Beaddle]

Marvel has brand name recognition for their films but they have always been like that. Even when they were only creating comics, it was always Marvel brand first, character second, storyline third. DC is the opposite its always been character first, storyline second, and then brand is dead last.

While most people know what DC is, less people probably know what it stands for and even less people can tell you who created the characters. However, most people could tell you what Marvel is and who Stan Lee is without trying to hard. That is the brand they built and when you look at both companies, it's easy to see how Marvel has become more successful because their model translated well to what they wanted to do in film. DC comic model didn't really translate to Marvel's film model,.

I never bought into the idea that marvel was a brand as it never was as some see it now. When blade came out in 1998, that was just marvel, followed by X-men and Spiderman movies, all 3 movies were different takes of comic movies that had zero to do with the other but still marvel.


Their comics are almost the exact opposite of the MCU in world building, believe me the marvel comics and not that obsessed with their IPs reminding readers they know eachother.

I always felt the real marvel still plays out more like DC, its not really about studios, sadly the giant mouse that is Disney has managed to insert a very weird narrative that it is about a brand because they wanted to sell the MCU concept and impact the Disney style on marvel. It was never necessarily about adapting the comics to movies. Marvel in reality is more open to interpretation than a brand with character first and story second too. Marvel can be anything you want it to be because their stories are so diverse, the branding is more Disney's model than Marvel.

[ComicJunkie21]

I never bought into the idea that marvel was a brand as it never was as some see it now. When blade came out in 1998, that was just marvel, followed by X-men and Spiderman movies, all 3 movies were different takes of comic movies that had zero to do with the other but still marvel.


Their comics are almost the exact opposite of the MCU in world building, believe me the marvel comics and not that obsessed with their IPs reminding readers they know eachother.

I always felt the real marvel still plays out more like DC, its not really about studios, sadly the giant mouse that is Disney has managed to insert a very weird narrative that it is about a brand because they wanted to sell the MCU concept and impact the Disney style on marvel. It was never necessarily about adapting the comics to movies. Marvel in reality is more open to interpretation than a brand with character first and story second too. Marvel can be anything you want it to be because their stories are so diverse, the branding is more Disney's model than Marvel.

At its core yes, Marvel does play like DC in some aspects. Both companies didn't have the all their character storylines as interwoven as much as they are depicted in film. Marvel can be anything they want to be but would have to disagree on the reason. Marvel can be anything they want because their characters outside of Spiderman and some X-Men aren't well known so people don't have an expectation on how they should be, which is an advantage that Marvel has had in films that DC will never have.

[Theleviathan]

Again, that was Snyder, and he's gone. Everything not touched by Snyder has been great, so why does the hesitation continue when the only problem has been solved for a while now?

Are four very distinctly different movies a trend?

I would say if Wonder Woman 1984 is equal or better than the original...then we have a trend. Fair?

[ComicJunkie21]

Are four very distinctly different movies a trend?

I would say if Wonder Woman 1984 is equal or better than the original...then we have a trend. Fair?

I would say if BOP is good then it's a trend.

[Midvillian1322]

At its core yes, Marvel does play like DC in some aspects. Both companies didn't have the all their character storylines as interwoven as much as they are depicted in film. Marvel can be anything they want to be but would have to disagree on the reason. Marvel can be anything they want because their characters outside of Spiderman and some X-Men aren't well known so people don't have an expectation on how they should be, which is an advantage that Marvel has had in films that DC will never have.

I've said this mutiple times. There is no expectation on who Thor is to the Genral audience but even someone who doesnt read comics has expectation when it comes to Batman and Superman. So when Snyder took Superman in that directon its bound to be way more controversial then changing the history of the Guardians around. That said if something is executed well and works I think people will respond well to it. But when your playing with Superman or Batman your Margin of Error is smaller. I think Wolverine /Ironman /Captain America will give that issue aswell when it comes time to reboot the characters. Cap and Ironman became iconic through the movies and Wolverine as Jakcman. I dont think the MCU is rebooting anytime soon but eventually they will and they are gonna have be more careful with Steve and Tony then they will with Moonknight for example. Wolveirne is gonna be our first glimpse at how that works out. And I'm guessing we see that in the next 2-5 years.

[ComicJunkie21]

I've said this mutiple times. There is no expectation on who Thor is to the Genral audience but even someone who doesnt read comics has expectation when it comes to Batman and Superman. So when Snyder took Superman in that directon its bound to be way more controversial then changing the history of the Guardians around. That said if something is executed well and works I think people will respond well to it. But when your playing with Superman or Batman your Margin of Error is smaller. I think Wolverine /Ironman /Captain America will give that issue aswell when it comes time to reboot the characters. Cap and Ironman became iconic through the movies and Wolverine as Jakcman. I dont think the MCU is rebooting anytime soon but eventually they will and they are gonna have be more careful with Steve and Tony then they will with Moonknight for example. Wolveirne is gonna be our first glimpse at how that works out. And I'm guessing we see that in the next 2-5 years.

If it's up to Marvel they won't reboot Iron Man or Captain America anytime soon but I think that when the sales from merchandising and licensing goes down Disney will force them to reboot those characters. Unless Marvel invests more in their animation to keep kids interested in their characters, there will most likely be a potential money grab that will happen for the worse. They should build off of the characters popularity and make more (and better) animation that reinforces the characters. Love it or hate it WB keeps Batman and Superman in kids faces so merchandise keeps selling.

Also keep in mind that although Marvel films have high grosses the net profits are not what brings in the cash, it's the merchandise, theme park sales, and licensing deals which are practically pure profit for Disney. So they will care if those areas take a hit.

[Theleviathan]

I would say if BOP is good then it's a trend.

Fair enough....not sure I'd want to bet on that particular movie though, .

I will say, the direction with the next Batman movie has me intrigued, so I'm hoping DC has found footing.

[Midvillian1322]

If it's up to Marvel they won't reboot Iron Man or Captain America anytime soon but I think that when the sales from merchandising and licensing goes down Disney will force them to reboot those characters. Unless Marvel invests more in their animation to keep kids interested in their characters, there will most likely be a potential money grab that will happen for the worse. They should build off of the characters popularity and make more (and better) animation that reinforces the characters. Love it or hate it WB keeps Batman and Superman in kids faces so merchandise keeps selling.

Also keep in mind that although Marvel films have high grosses the net profits are not what brings in the cash, it's the merchandise, theme park sales, and licensing deals which are practically pure profit for Disney. So they will care if those areas take a hit.

You do know Spiderman makes up most of Marvels merchandise sales by a huge margin and Black Panther is now a huge IP that moves tons of kids merch. Rocket and Groot move alot of Merch aswell but inbetween movies they dont stay as relevant as Black Panther. Deadpool is also a huge Merchandise mover. As new franchises come out Marvel will push that. The Avngers are important but by no means theyrr breast and butter. That would be Spiderman and Black Black Panther proved a new character can move more merchandise then the Avengers.

Xmen merchandise is already starting to pop up again in big retail stores. Wait untill Xmen and F4 movies come out. Deadpool and the occasional Wolverine stuff is the only Fox property that had merch Disney pushed at all. Once they release they're own movies I bet we see stuff from them everywhere. Other properties it's hard to tell. I dont know if Captain Mavrel sales much toys. They dont have much in the boys section and I have a son so that's all I really see. But they have clothes and Backpacks for her aplenty. New franchises will step up and fill the merchandise voids. More likely we get a legacy character for Ironman. We already know who's gonna be the new Cap. Untill films start failing the MCU isnt getting rebooted. Spiderman makes most the merchandise money and it doesnt have be movie tie in merch to sale. So that's never gonna be a huge issue and I'd argue Xmen and F4 could be much bigger merchandise wise then Ironman and Cap.

[WebLurker]

Again, that was Snyder, and he's gone. Everything not touched by Snyder has been great, so why does the hesitation continue when the only problem has been solved for a while now?

Well, the fallout of the "Snyder-verse," if we call his plans for the DCEU that, forced the DCEU to change plans in the middle of things (I mean, there are parts of Dawn of Justice that no longer make sense, since what they were supposed to set up never happened). So far, they seem to be doing pretty well just making each movie its own thing, with superficial ties to keep everything in the same universe, but I guess it still feels like the future is unstable in that I don't feel like they have a long-term plan. Marvel Studios planned ahead and I think that's what's kept them on top of the game. Not sure if that makes any sense, but there it is.