New Avengers #23 (spoilers)

[Mark]

Then blame Hickman, but don't deny the facts of the story as it's been told ,-)

I do and I don't reject the facts of the story but I don't approve or agree with the choices made. Not that it matters.

Main problem is marvel still wants us me to think of these people as heroes I can't. Worse in a year it'll be "Great Society? Who cares, that was last year and look here's the fill in the blank supervillain on his annual attack on Earth in our next super big mega event! See, the Illuminati are saving people now, they are heroes again! Who cares who they murdered before, that was so last year, come , move on, nothing to see back then and that guy isn't even working for us anymore, thrill now to our latest big event!" There in my opinion is the solid core of cynicism that is the heart of marvel. Body count matters when you are a villain, but when you are a hero body count can be swept under the rug quickly. It's been there since Avengers Dissasembled and I don't think it will ever leave because it makes them money.

[stillanerd]

Okay, the way I see this, just as the Illuminati sitting back and doing nothing to stop the latest Incursion in this issue was wrong, so were Namor as his new Cabal in destroying another Earth. Not just because it's mass murder--just because it's saving one population over having both populations die doesn't make it any less wrong--but, from what I understand it, destroying another Earth in order to prevent an Incursion is not actually addressing or solving the greater problem at hand. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but the Marvel Multiverse is prematurely collapsing. And every time an Incursion takes place, the faster the multiverse contracts, right? However, as we've seen in this issue and previous one, we see that another Incursion was about to take place sooner than expected. Well, guess what this means? It means:

The contraction of the multiverse speeds up whenever an Earth gets destroyed for any reason. Which means the Illuminati, and now the Cabal, have actually been accelerating the destruction of the multiverse this whole time. In other words, they haven't actually been solving the problem at all but making it worse.

So what would be the solution to preventing the collapse of the multiverse? Well, the Illuminati can't stop the contraction, hence why they assumed the only way to save their world was to blow up the alternate Earths about to collide into them. But there is, potentially, a third alternative, one which I imagine the 616 heroes (and some of Marvel's fans) may not particularly like. And that is...

Universal Amalgamation--the combining of all parallel worlds into a single universe.

And if that is what Hickman is ultimately going for with his Universal Incursion storyline, I wouldn't be surprised if this solution comes from none other than Doctor Doom and Valeria Richards. And if they get asked why they never proposed this solution beforehand, Doom might tell them "You never bothered to ask," and also state, even though it would save the multiverse, it would also mean that the amalgamation might lead to unexpected results: such as people who once existed no longer existing, or parallel versions of themselves merging into a single entity with an entirely different history, or even multiple versions of the same person co-existing in the same universe. "And third," Doom could say, "Doom wanted the satisfaction of watching Richards squirm, undone by his own arrogance and pride in so-called intellect, to finally admit to himself that, contrary to his own delusional beliefs, he is not the 'the world's smartest human.'"

[UltimateTy]

"Here in Latveria, Doom demands that children always get a good night's sleep."

That is the funniest line I've read this month.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

"Here in Latveria, Doom demands that children always get a good night's sleep."

That is the funniest line I've read this month.

I thought that was brilliant as well.

[jackolover]

I think they are culpable. Indirectly perhaps but how did this new Cabal get together? The Illuminati had a hand in each of these being in such a position to combine and destroy worlds. Black Bolt's trust of Maximus. Obviously Namor's inclusion and eventual expulsion. The Illuminati giving the Black Swan so much freedom/influence, and then "imprisoning" them all together in one place. Yikes. Obviously the Cabal are making their own choices but those are possible because of sins and missteps of the Illuminati.

I don't think we disagree. The Cabal are the ones doing the planet killing now, certainly. But the Illuminati now realize they have the responsibility to stop them, or find a different way, they are the only men on Earth who know what is going on and that Thanos and co. are on the loose. It is their responsibility to put out their own fires or find help doing so, which won't come easy.

Did the Illuminati find out the Cabal are loose and world killing already?

[jackolover]

A thought: Perhaps Future Hawkeye had Tony go back for the Incursion not for the fight against the Great Society...but to stop the actions that led to the new Cabal being formed.

Why? That would stop Namor being proactive and the Incursion would go ahead.

[Mahes]

Did the Illuminati find out the Cabal are loose and world killing already?

No but the dots won't be hard to figure out. Black Bolt did point out when they met that Namor was missing and then they realized how Earth 616 had survived. From there, it's just simple to go to Necropolis and see prisoners missing.

[jackolover]

No but the dots won't be hard to figure out. Black Bolt did point out when they met that Namor was missing and then they realized how Earth 616 had survived. From there, it's just simple to go to Necropolis and see prisoners missing.

Okay, thanks.

[frostywontons]

So the Illuminati didn't also find it strange that Doctor Strange wasn't present as well? Hickman seems to be telegraphing hard toward the common speculation that Black Priests are rogue Stranges. I am still curious about how Hickman will flesh all of this out though. And let it be known that Hickman is one of the best Doom writers of all time.

[frostywontons]

So where do you think Doctor Strange went?

As the internet has speculated, Black Priests may be a bunch of wayward Stranges so 616 Strange probably went to whatever magical land to become a "Black Priest" to gain their power. But Hickman is a very able writer so let us hope he'll be a bit more creative.

[dzub]

Namor the GOAT.

he's the OG of Marvel Comics.Literally.

Can we get a new book titled "Dark Avengers" with the Cabal PLEASE???

The Illuminati is severely underpowered if they are going to try and stop the Cabal. Severely.

I hope doom joins this cabal too, he fits in the tech/magical needs.

I knew Namor would do what he did the biggest surprise this issue was Storm and T'challa having sex, didn't seen that coming.

that's the only part of this issue i hated...but hey BP felt better after that!

And we also got the Axis solicits where there will be a Sorceress Supreme, so… Strange loses the title again?

this year have'nt been kind on him, give him a break marvel!!

[dzub]

How would you guys change the Cabal line up?

i prefer the original cabal as they were sorta the analogs to the illuminati.
this current one is way too overkill with power, needs more thinkers.
maximus alone does'nt cut it to me.

[divad4686]

Do you guys think thanos and his generals know that they can just destroy our earth and save the rest of the universe?, because I don't see how he would care about saving earth at all. Maybe Maximus made some deal with Black swan so she would not tell thanos about it. But this also leave the point on terrax, he does know about the fact that destroying earth saves the universe, so why would he also help Namor and maximus save it.

And a bit OT here, does anyone know where is Galactus? after all the ultimate universe thing.

[AcesX1X]

i prefer the original cabal as they were sorta the analogs to the illuminati.
this current one is way too overkill with power, needs more thinkers.
maximus alone does'nt cut it to me.

i consider black swan to be a "thinker" or at least a brilliant manipulator. i could deal without thanos silly generals and that alt terrax though. kick them out and add magneto, doom, and shuri panther. that would be an awesome cabal.

[divad4686]

And wtf with people here saying namor and the Cabal went on a rampage. They have to get to the other earth to plant the bomb, and they probably encounter resistance over there. Does thanos and courvus look like they are enjoin the killing? well yea, it is kinda their thing.