What Does It Take For Straight Readers To Accept That A Character Is Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual?

[Detox]

The answer is pretty obvious, it doesn't need to be spelt out. And IF it was, all that would happen straight (irony) after would be cries of double standards. We've done this dance before; we recognise the moves

Then don't answer it. I said if someone felt comfortable doing so, it might actually provide some insight on a personal level that may make it easier for certain people to understand. No one should feel obligated to respond by any means, I just don't see any problem with the question being asked.

[totalsellout]

But don't you think, for SOME (as the poll says) will never accept an LGBT character in a series? Surely it's a valid choice?

yes for some, but i do not think that is the default position for cis readers, as the poll says it it.

[Double 0]

yes for some, but i do not think that is the default position for cis readers, as the poll says it it.

I don't think it says that at all.

[Kieran_Frost]

I don't think it says that at all.

Agreed. It says SOME not all not most not "the majority"... just SOME. Which is a fair statement. Some will never accept a character they liked (and believed was straight) is now LGBT. I don't see any problem with stating that???

[Magnito]

Then don't answer it. I said if someone felt comfortable doing so, it might actually provide some insight on a personal level that may make it easier for certain people to understand. No one should feel obligated to respond by any means, I just don't see any problem with the question being asked.

I'll try. My sexuality is a very important part of my life and my identity because of how often I have to think about it. I have to be aware of it when I'm with my extended family who consider it a taboo subject. I have to be aware of it when I walk down the street with my partner and can't show any PDA, even mind things like putting my arm around him. I have to be aware of it at work (I work with children and they are naturally inquisitive. They ask questions on if I am married or have a girlfriend i and I have to change the subject). So yes, my sexuality I'd a huge part of who I am because I have to think about it and what it means and how I may be percieved way more than any straight person ever had to. Straight people could have brought a date to their cousin's wedding, held hands with their partenr on the street or told their students about their girlfriend. I can't.

[totalsellout]

it has it as the most chosen option. we can quibble about if that equals default or not, but i think you know what i mean(this would be one of those the answer is glaringly obvious scenarios you were talking about earlier).

[hawkeyefan]

Agreed. It says SOME not all not most not "the majority"... just SOME. Which is a fair statement. Some will never accept a character they liked (and believed was straight) is now LGBT. I don't see any problem with stating that???

I think the poll is very simplistic. Most polls are...but to boil this discussion down to 8 options seems pretty limiting. Especially since the last option can be selected along with any of the others and still be true.

I think asking what it will take for people to accept a character as LGBT and then listing different degrees of confirmation, and then having a last option that is not a degree of confirmation, but is instead a comment about how some readers may feel, is flawed.

If we wanted an accurate poll, wouldn't all the answers have to be specific? Like, I think it takes option A and you think it takes option B. Not some people won't recognize any option.

Of course some people will never accept it. But that's not an answer to the question that was asked, is it?

[totalsellout]

I'll try. My sexuality is a very important part of my life and my identity because of how often I have to think about it. I have to be aware of it when I'm with my extended family who consider it a taboo subject. I have to be aware of it when I walk down the street with my partner and can't show any PDA, even mind things like putting my arm around him. I have to be aware of it at work (I work with children and they are naturally inquisitive. They ask questions on if I am married or have a girlfriend i and I have to change the subject). So yes, my sexuality I'd a huge part of who I am because I have to think about it and what it means and how I may be percieved way more than any straight person ever had to. Straight people could have brought a date to their cousin's wedding, held hands with their partenr on the street or told their students about their girlfriend. I can't.

great answer.

[Detox]

So, as a straight guy, I'd really like to be educated more on this. I don't have any LGBT friends (not because I have a problem with them, But I live in the south, so they're either not around or closeted...not that I blame them).

How big is your secularity to your identity? I ask, because for me, being straight isn't really a big deal. I understand that my orientation is what is considered "socially acceptable" or "normal" so I don't get persecuted, so that may effect this, but for me, my orientation isn't a big part of my identity. It just is what is. Same goes for my race. I identify more with my gender than anything, but even that's kind of a moot point because the things I look for in characters are deeper than that. I like characters that I can connect with more on an emotional level than a physical one. I like characters like nova and kamala because they speak to the kid to me and Spiderman because he represents doing the right thing and growing up and evolving in a lot of ways.

I guess what I'm saying is how much of your identity is defined by your sexuality? and do you want LGBT characters because YOU want to see yourself, or do you want them there because the marvel universe should be a reflection of the real world?

I'll try. My sexuality is a very important part of my life and my identity because of how often I have to think about it. I have to be aware of it when I'm with my extended family who consider it a taboo subject. I have to be aware of it when I walk down the street with my partner and can't show any PDA, even mind things like putting my arm around him. I have to be aware of it at work (I work with children and they are naturally inquisitive. They ask questions on if I am married or have a girlfriend i and I have to change the subject). So yes, my sexuality I'd a huge part of who I am because I have to think about it and what it means and how I may be percieved way more than any straight person ever had to. Straight people could have brought a date to their cousin's wedding, held hands with their partenr on the street or told their students about their girlfriend. I can't.

Thank you.

Danileriver23... read and digest, reverse roles, try to personalize.

[The Whovian]

if lgbt readers can't treat straight readers with the same empathy they are asking for, they lose any kind of moral standing they have here. darkknight's question is completely valid, especially in this thread. he's not asking about political ramifications or representation, he's asking how would you feel if a gay character was turned straight. it is jarring to have the sexuality of a person flipped on it's axis, which ever way it goes. i honestly liked the iceman reveal, and am indifferent on herc. i may be a tad bit of a bendis defender, but i thought the bobby story was well done and rang true for me. my son never came out to me, it was an accident of internet history that revealed it to me, it kind of feels like the jean thing. my son really liked that story. but, i do understand the feelings of people that don't like these decisions, and you should be able to relate to that without having to bring up overarching big picture agenda things and treat straights like their feelings are not valid. yes, it should be easier for straight people because they have much more representation. but you should at least be able to emphasize with that group.

kieran_frost -when my son asks if there are any gay superhero books (he has) i tell him that their just isn't enough of a market for one. just like there isn't a market for a hispanic book (we are also mexican). he lives in the real world and fully realizes that gays are still struggling for representation. i actually gave him my run of pak's herc, and he didn't even really think herc was supposed to be bi, he just thought it was a joke. the only thing he seemed to like about that run was cho and his dog. it's going to take a lot more then bisexuallity to get my son to relate to uber-bro hercules.

I would highly recommend you buy your son every Miles Morales Spider-Man book you can find. It's a great book about a young boy who is half Hispanic and gains Spider-Man's powers plus a couple of other neat powers. It's a funny, but at times dramatic driven story that will make you laugh and cry at the same time. He'll thoroughly enjoy it

[Awwwvenger]

relevant how? i didn't single out any specific lgbt posts.

Of course you did. You mentioned the poll, which was done by a specific person, and conflated it with the exasperated responses written by completely different people as if all of them were posted by some huge undifferentiated gay blob and not individuals.

[totalsellout]

I would highly recommend you buy your son every Miles Morales Spider-Man book you can find. It's a great book about a young boy who is half Hispanic and gains Spider-Man's powers plus a couple of other neat powers. It's a funny, but at times dramatic driven story that will make you laugh and cry at the same time. He'll thoroughly enjoy it

we have it, and it's a favorite.

[totalsellout]

Of course you did. You mentioned the poll, which was done by a specific person, and conflated it with the exasperated responses written by completely different people as if all of them were posted by some huge undifferentiated gay blob and not individuals.

uh, ok? so, are you saying i should be more specific or less specific?

[Awwwvenger]

uh, ok? so, are you saying i should be more specific or less specific?

You shouldn't hold different posters collectively responsible for their individual posts just because they're gay or supporting of LGBT issues. I believe I've explained this adequately, and multiple times now. It's a theme in this thread...

[mugiwara]

1) "show saying they are ..."
Yes, unless it's clearly a lie or a joke (like Beast in Morrison's New X-Men)

2) They have to be shown kising another man or another woman
Yes, this one is rather clear.

3) They have to have years of innuendos and hints that they're gay, lesbian or bisexual
Depends of the inuendos.
In Hercules' case, the Northstar thing was enough. Didn't need years.
In Iceman's case, nope. The fact his relationship with women tend to fail didn't mean he was gay. (in that case, I would be Al Super Gay)

4) They have to be shown in bed with another man or another woman
Yes, even more clear than the kiss.

5) They have to have a telepath confirm it
Depend of the telepath. I would trust Professor X or Rachel's word, not necessarely Quentin Quire's.

6) The writer has to confirm it
I'm torn over this one. If the writer confirmed it, but there wasn't anything clear in the comics, I will consider the character gay, etc... But I will have no problem with another writer later saying the characters is straight.

7) The creator of the character has to confirm it
Same as above. Unless the creator owns the character, their word doesn't weight more than any other writer's.

But to be fair, there are a lot of even less objective factors. Would I like this character to be gay? Do I like the writer who outed them? Do I like the way they were outed, do I find it convincing?