Pros and Cons of A Not Being In A Shared Universe

[Alpha]

AQ does not have a similar background to her. And she only stopped him because Steve was able to get AQ away from her. She was getting her ass overpowered by AQ before that. And yes i have a problem with that. Because historically, WW has been stronger than AQ. And now she can't even match him on land. I have a problem with that.

So what? It was never important for her to be unquestionably stronger than Aquaman. Why is it important now? You remind me of someone on the marvel thread that complained about Hulk being "too weak lately".

[WonderLight789]

So what? It was never important for her to be unquestionably stronger than Aquaman. Why is it important now? You remind me of someone on the marvel thread that complained about Hulk being "too weak lately".

WW being one of the strongest beings in DC is part of her character and is important. Oh but sure. It is OK for her to be weaker than AQ. Weaker than Superman, Manhunter, Supergirl, Powergirl, Shazam, Mary Marvel and now Aquaman. Is there a super being that WW actually matches in strength now? Or maybe being the weakest out of all super beings is part of what makes her ''unique'' in your opinion? Wanting to see WW being portrayed as a competent opponent next to other powerhouses is not important and is ridiculous according to you? Well for me WW being portrayed as a massively strong being is very important. And history proves that it was very important for Marston. So i am not alone here.

[Alpha]

Wanting to see WW being portrayed as a competent opponent next to other powerhouses is not important and is ridiculous according to you?

She was. Aquaman still wasn't able to beat her easily.

[WonderLight789]

She was. Aquaman still wasn't able to beat her easily.

AQ overpowered her easily and would have beat her without Steve. Pathetic and weak. The usual standard for WW nowadays.

[Alpha]

AQ overpowered her easily.

He literally didn't. If he could've killed Wonder Woman easily he would have. He was shown as a tad stronger than her, and almost killed her, but this was after she smacked him around plenty.

[WonderLight789]

He literally didn't. If he could've killed Wonder Woman easily he would have. He was shown as a tad stronger than her, and almost killed her, but this was after she smacked him around plenty.

Wow. I am supposed to be statisfied with bread crumbs? No thank you. He overpowered her. He had already beat her underwater. And then even on land she can't match his strength. Jobber Woman at her best. But hey, it is ok if you like WW being weaker than AQ and almost any super being. I don't like it. We have different views on where the character should rank. To you it is not a problem seeing WW lose so often against other super powered characters. To me it is a problem. I like a WW that is shown as one hell of a top gun. Like Marston intended her to be. I am not going to be statisfied with warrior woman and her usual trackrecord of losing fights that don't involve humans and other types of fodder.

[WonderLight789]

It is very sad to see WW's power going down while others go up.

[Rightoya]

Almost all of the Aquaman can match let alone is stronger than Wonder Woman tries have been trash, cause they typically don't even bring Aquaman up to the kryptonian or major lanterns level, they typically just portray a truly weak or incompetent Wonder Woman. So they don't help Aquaman, and just damage Wonder Woman, but they are luckily relative rare.

So i am not looking forward to that in the JS movie, but still wouldn't say that Aquaman is a major reason speaking for not being in a shared verse.

[Alpha]

Yup, sucks for you. I'm not gonna pretend I love Diana in this story. She was very serious and straight headed, which makes sense for someone experienced in the middle of WW2, but is still not very compelling. She doesn't even take the lasso out of her waist once, and that's disappointing too.

It's also hilarious that Steve makes such a big deal out of marriage when the Amazons probably don't even have that tradition (I mean, if the amazons lived together for 3000 years there is no way that they could put up with each other as a married couple for that long, so at some point all of them would give up on the concept and Diana would be used to poligamy.

But at the very least, this was the first time Diana led a team onscreen and she was totally competent and trusted by her teammates. It feels pretty good to see that

[AmiMizuno]

I mean the only good thing is the JSA movie is in it's own thing. So they might be trying to do a mulitverse and shared universe

[Guy_McNichts]

Two more Pros:

- The Lasso and its ability to protect her and others from mind control and illusions won't be disregarded as much if at all. Because we all know how in love Justice League and crossover stories love to contrive excuses for the heroes to fight each other. And, almost always, that requires writes to pretend the Lasso doesn't exist. Or worse, they will remember, but Diana won't be the one to do it. The recent animated movies seemed to be in love with this trick (Diana is possessed by Trigon, Superman frees her with the Lasso; Diana is tricked by an illusion, Zatanna ties her up in the Lasso; Diana is Darkseid's cyborg slave, Constantine uses the Lasso to free her, etc).
And what a terrible loss it'll be for there to be fewer "heroes fight each other" stories, right?

- Diana won't be shoe-horned into stories she doesn't need to be involved with just because it's a shared universe and she's Wonder Woman. Over in the Superman forum, there's a thread about Max Landis (ew) pitching a big Superman epic, and wouldn't you know, Wonder Woman's in it. And, shock of shocks, it's an awful interpretation of her character. Why is she even involved? Why bother including her?
I just keep thinking about whenever DC announces some big event--whether it's for one character in particular or the universe overall--and the awful sense of dread knowing Diana most likely doesn't need to be in the story, the writer won't be bothered to give her a decent role, but she'll appear anyway because it's a shared universe and Wonder Woman "needs" to be around. Like whenever DC decides to rehash the Death of Superman for the eighth time, and we all know Diana doesn't need to be in, but she will be, and she's only going to be there to get her ass kicked. A big pro, in my book, not just for Wonder Woman but DC as a whole: being spared that grim sense of obligation that comes with every "big" story.

[Perseus]

Two more Pros:

- The Lasso and its ability to protect her and others from mind control and illusions won't be disregarded as much if at all. Because we all know how in love Justice League and crossover stories love to contrive excuses for the heroes to fight each other. And, almost always, that requires writes to pretend the Lasso doesn't exist. Or worse, they will remember, but Diana won't be the one to do it. The recent animated movies seemed to be in love with this trick (Diana is possessed by Trigon, Superman frees her with the Lasso; Diana is tricked by an illusion, Zatanna ties her up in the Lasso; Diana is Darkseid's cyborg slave, Constantine uses the Lasso to free her, etc).
And what a terrible loss it'll be for there to be fewer "heroes fight each other" stories, right?

- Diana won't be shoe-horned into stories she doesn't need to be involved with just because it's a shared universe and she's Wonder Woman. Over in the Superman forum, there's a thread about Max Landis (ew) pitching a big Superman epic, and wouldn't you know, Wonder Woman's in it. And, shock of shocks, it's an awful interpretation of her character. Why is she even involved? Why bother including her?
I just keep thinking about whenever DC announces some big event--whether it's for one character in particular or the universe overall--and the awful sense of dread knowing Diana most likely doesn't need to be in the story, the writer won't be bothered to give her a decent role, but she'll appear anyway because it's a shared universe and Wonder Woman "needs" to be around. Like whenever DC decides to rehash the Death of Superman for the eighth time, and we all know Diana doesn't need to be in, but she will be, and she's only going to be there to get her ass kicked. That's a big pro, in my book, not just for Wonder Woman but DC as a whole: being spared that grim sense of obligation that comes with every "big" story.

Oh lord, I want to know so badly....

[Gaius]

Two more Pros:

- The Lasso and its ability to protect her and others from mind control and illusions won't be disregarded as much if at all. Because we all know how in love Justice League and crossover stories love to contrive excuses for the heroes to fight each other. And, almost always, that requires writes to pretend the Lasso doesn't exist. Or worse, they will remember, but Diana won't be the one to do it. The recent animated movies seemed to be in love with this trick (Diana is possessed by Trigon, Superman frees her with the Lasso; Diana is tricked by an illusion, Zatanna ties her up in the Lasso; Diana is Darkseid's cyborg slave, Constantine uses the Lasso to free her, etc).
And what a terrible loss it'll be for there to be fewer "heroes fight each other" stories, right?

- Diana won't be shoe-horned into stories she doesn't need to be involved with just because it's a shared universe and she's Wonder Woman. Over in the Superman forum, there's a thread about Max Landis (ew) pitching a big Superman epic, and wouldn't you know, Wonder Woman's in it. And, shock of shocks, it's an awful interpretation of her character. Why is she even involved? Why bother including her?
I just keep thinking about whenever DC announces some big event--whether it's for one character in particular or the universe overall--and the awful sense of dread knowing Diana most likely doesn't need to be in the story, the writer won't be bothered to give her a decent role, but she'll appear anyway because it's a shared universe and Wonder Woman "needs" to be around. Like whenever DC decides to rehash the Death of Superman for the eighth time, and we all know Diana doesn't need to be in, but she will be, and she's only going to be there to get her ass kicked. That's a big pro, in my book, not just for Wonder Woman but DC as a whole: being spared that grim sense of obligation that comes with every "big" story.

Yeah, I think the DCAU they took away the truth power of the Lasso because they thought it would make things to easy for the League to solve stuff and so it was pretty much just a rope for most of the series.

Which seems like taking away the abilities of the GL ring to create constructs or letting Lanterns fly because it makes thing to easy for the team.

[Mistah K88]

Yeah, I think the DCAU they took away the truth power of the Lasso because they thought it would make things to easy for the League to solve stuff and so it was pretty much just a rope for most of the series.

Which seems like taking away the abilities of the GL ring to create constructs or letting Lanterns fly because it makes thing to easy for the team.

Did J’onn’s telepathy cause these same issues?

[Alpha]

Oh lord, I want to know so badly....

He has interesting ideas for other characters, but his take on Wonder Woman is actually awful yes. I can't quite remember all of it but basically Themyscira is a hidden island populated by a misandrist cult that worships the greek gods and thinks men are an inferior race. The reason why they think that is because the island is surrounded by golden waters, and when women come out of the waters they become tall burly superhumans, while the men just die. Lex Luthor discovered the island and convince these women that he is Zeus (through the use of advanced technology) and now they serve him. So Diana starts out as an agent of Lex Luthor because she thinks he is a god.

The first time Wonder Woman appears she fights Superman, Blue Beetle (in a Hulkbuster armor), Zatanna and Green Arrow and Aquaman. And she beats them all alone. She also ends up having a romance with Pete Ross in the future (but Max's version of Pete Ross is sort of a normal man that ends up getting in the middle of all these giant conflicts and showing bravery).

So on one hand, Wonder Woman is extremely powerful and skilled, but on the other there are all those elements that just miss the point of the character.