Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[witchboy]

I felt bad for Conner in how Superman reacted to him, but I still found Superman sympathetic in that situation. Superman had been violated, having basically a child of his created without his consent. I would've loved to have seen that resolved a little more on screen.
YJ brings such a great well developed world, it makes me wish there were room for a spin off series, such as the Justice League. Maybe as a prequel, go back to Year One.

[Shadowcat]

Shazam/Captain Marvel would do better on his own earth again.

[Midnight_v]

Shazam/Captain Marvel would do better on his own earth again.

i think there needs to be a character bible that must be studied for all writers. In that bible needs to be written as the first rule of Shazam: Is no longer able to be defeated by superman. (so either you have him beat supes OR you leave him tf alone AND make them team up like you should do).

[Frontier]

I felt bad for Conner in how Superman reacted to him, but I still found Superman sympathetic in that situation. Superman had been violated, having basically a child of his created without his consent. I would've loved to have seen that resolved a little more on screen.
YJ brings such a great well developed world, it makes me wish there were room for a spin off series, such as the Justice League. Maybe as a prequel, go back to Year One.

My problem was that while I understood Superman's reaction, his active attempts to bond with and get to know Conner were relegated to a tie-in comic.

A lot of DC's Asian women characters fall very heavily into the "Dragon lady" stereotype. Then there are characters like Egg Fu which fans keep pushing for writers to use more and more despite everything about him screaming "typical Silver Age comics racism". Actually a lot of Wonder Woman's Golden and Silver Age writing when it comes to women and non-white people is viewed with rose-tinted glasses. Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One got praise from Golden Age WW fans for harkening back to that era despite those tropes being abandoned for good reasons.

Examples? The only "dragon lady" in terms of characterization and dress I can think of is Roulette and I don't think she was actually Asian. Katana isn't like that, Dr. Light isn't like that, Cassandra Cain isn't like that...are you referring to Shiva? I don't think of Dr. Poison as a "dragon lady."

Did you not think Egg Fu's update in 52 worked?

If you're Greek, it's togas and Zues or you're a fisherman well pest his years. There's no in between.

DC has never been particularly strong at portraying other cultures. It's very USA-centric.

This is a wider media problem then just a DC problem. And I think they've gotten better about it.

[Agent Z]

Examples?

Shiva

Chesire

Talia

Cass during the time she was a villain

Shiv

Shado

Miss Fear

Lynx

Did you not think Egg Fu's update in 52 worked?

N

[Frontier]

Shiva

Chesire

Talia

Cass during the time she was a villain

Shiv

Shado

Miss Fear

Lynx

Ah, okay I see. I guess I can see how their portrayals might be rooted in those stereotypes but I feel like they are all distinct and memorable characters in-spite of that.

And obviously not all their Asian characters are depicted this way.

[Agent Z]

Ah, okay I see. I guess I can see how their portrayals might be rooted in those stereotypes but I feel like they are all distinct and memorable characters in-spite of that.

And obviously not all their Asian characters are depicted this way.

I think they can be when they aren't being written that way. There's a reason YJ didn't depict Cheshire in that manner and Cass's turn as a Dragon lady stereotype is understandably hated by fans.

[Shadowcat]

i think there needs to be a character bible that must be studied for all writers. In that bible needs to be written as the first rule of Shazam: Is no longer able to be defeated by superman. (so either you have him beat supes OR you leave him tf alone AND make them team up like you should do).

I love the thought of character bibles, but Shazam is one of those characters thrived on a different world. It always felt like an event whenever they’d have a crossover. My favorite Shazam story is DC Comics Presents Annual 3, with Gil Kane on art. Beautiful art, fun, kitschy story.

[Frontier]

I think they can be when they aren't being written that way. There's a reason YJ didn't depict Cheshire in that manner and Cass's turn as a Dragon lady stereotype is understandably hated by fans.

I don't think Cheshire in YJ is all that different from the comic version save for not being as vicious or uncaring as she is in the comics, but I think she's still pretty much the same character.

Cass' thing is so OOC that I don't think it bares even considering.

[Agent Z]

I don't think Cheshire in YJ is all that different from the comic version save for not being as vicious or uncaring as she is in the comics, but I think she's still pretty much the same character.

I'd say the difference between the two versions is very large. She actually cares about Roy and her family, she isn't a genocidere and the only male character she flirts with is the guy she is actually attracted while comic Cheshire is the poster girl for "sexualized, vampish, Asian femme fatale".

[Frontier]

I'd say the difference between the two versions is very large. She actually cares about Roy and her family, she isn't a genocidere and the only male character she flirts with is the guy she is actually attracted while comic Cheshire is the poster girl for "sexualized, vampish, Asian femme fatale".

There were times when she has been shown to actually care about her family in the comics. She hasn't committed genocide like the comic version did, but she's still a dangerous criminal.

She was basically a femme fatale for Roy before they got married. And even then...

[godisawesome]

I don't think Cheshire in YJ is all that different from the comic version save for not being as vicious or uncaring as she is in the comics, but I think she's still pretty much the same character.

Cass' thing is so OOC that I don't think it bares even considering.

I'd say the difference between the two versions is very large. She actually cares about Roy and her family, she isn't a genocidere and the only male character she flirts with is the guy she is actually attracted while comic Cheshire is the poster girl for "sexualized, vampish, Asian femme fatale".

I think the difference between the two comes down to this:

Original Comic Cheshire was designed to be the murderous terrorist supervillain Roy Harper made mistakes with and who wound up as his “baby mama.”

Young Justice Cartoon Cheshire was designed to be the anti-villain and still caring sister to a dyed-in-the-wool heroic character in Artemis who also had a largely positive relationship with Red Arrow.

The difference in priorities and purposes behind the character heavily modified their evolution.

Comic Cheshire used nukes and has betrayed and backstabbed numerous people on panel, and has very few people who supported her original incarnation’s relationship with Roy, or think that she should have seen her daughter much, if at all. She doesn’t really have much of a fanbase, because she’s juts a villain, and isn’t really even that deep of a character.

Cartoon Cheshire is an assassin who assassinates remarkably few people on screen (has she even killed anyone yet?) despite her best efforts, is marked by loyalty to her sister above her father and his associates, can trigger heartbreak among fans when she believes she cant’ be with Roy, and seems to have been an ax element mother for quite some time before her relapse into a lighter form of villainy where she seems to still have higher standards than her employers and father.

There’s a definitive difference in his Greg Weisman wants you to view Cheshire vs how Wolfman, Simone, and others wanted you to view Cheshire.

It’s remarkable how important her not being (anywhere even near) “as” vicious or uncaring as the comic version can change the character.

It’s almost like a reverse and arguably much more radical version of the situation between Talia Al Ghul written by Denny O’Neill and Grant Morrison - people already feel that change is maybe a bit too drastic even though Talia was generally cool with her dad’s plans, largely because Morrison’s take seems incapable of being someone Bruce actually fell for, or who could turn him back from his self-imposed exile at the start of No Man’s Land. Cheshire in Young Justice (and somewhat in the New 52 incarnation of her that showed up in RHATO) is having edges filed off and being rewritten to fit more with the idea of being someone Roy could actually fall for in a healthy(-ish) way, with the result being a more “fun” and much less loathsome character.

[SiegePerilous02]

Bruce falling for Talia has always been a little weird even before Morrison tbh. I know Bruce likes the "bad girls," but I can understand what draws him to Selina and Andrea (at least *before* she became the Phantasm) whereas I never understood why Talia's whole "Beloved!" deal would draw him in.

[Gaius]

Bruce falling for Talia has always been a little weird even before Morrison tbh. I know Bruce likes the "bad girls," but I can understand what draws him to Selina and Andrea (at least *before* she became the Phantasm) whereas I never understood why Talia's whole "Beloved!" deal would draw him in.

Yeah, I think it's a needless holdover from when Batman was aping the Bond films.

[Frontier]

Comic Cheshire used nukes and has betrayed and backstabbed numerous people on panel, and has very few people who supported her original incarnation’s relationship with Roy, or think that she should have seen her daughter much, if at all. She doesn’t really have much of a fanbase, because she’s juts a villain, and isn’t really even that deep of a character.

I always thought she was popular as far as DC female villains go. Maybe that was just re-approprating her popularity from her cartoon incarnation.

Cartoon Cheshire is an assassin who assassinates remarkably few people on screen (has she even killed anyone yet?) despite her best efforts, is marked by loyalty to her sister above her father and his associates, can trigger heartbreak among fans when she believes she cant’ be with Roy, and seems to have been an ax element mother for quite some time before her relapse into a lighter form of villainy where she seems to still have higher standards than her employers and father.

I think that's a holdover from when the show was still meant for kids and they couldn't show any on-screen deaths...not that she killed anyone in Outsiders, but that's besides the point in my opinion.

Bruce falling for Talia has always been a little weird even before Morrison tbh. I know Bruce likes the "bad girls," but I can understand what draws him to Selina and Andrea (at least *before* she became the Phantasm) whereas I never understood why Talia's whole "Beloved!" deal would draw him in.

She's a beautiful, capable, woman with strong ideals (that sometimes run counter to her father) but on the wrong side of the law, seems absolutely devoted to him, and wears a catsuit...I can see it.