It really is amazing just how much the MCU has after the Fox buyout

[KurtW95]

Yeah I’m not optimistic after their recent projects and announcements.

[H-E-D]

I find it funny how most of the people who resist X-Men joining the MCU are people who aren't big X-Men fans. Most with even a passing interest of X-Men are enthusiastic about it, even more are the major fans, who eagerly wait to see X-Men on film done right.

Honestly, two or three years ago, I'd have been as hyped as you are. But I've kinda chilled out on adaptations. I think there's this annoying fetishization, glorification of the film medium, like that adaptation to film elevates the property. As a fan of the comix medium, it's all gotten a little condescending to me.

The reason I get excited for things like Shang-Chi and Eternals is the domino effect it has in terms of resurfacing the properties in comics, and just generally getting more eyes on the characters. Like, Doctor Strange came out, and suddenly I can talk to a lot more people about Doctor Strange.

[QUOTE=Hybrid;4576828And why are you acting like having these things will suddenly detract from everything else? That I can't get.[/QUOTE]

Marvel can only produce so many projects a year. The X-Men are going to be outcompeting other properties. It won't detract from the quality of the MCU, to be clear.

[QUOTE=Hybrid;4576828Personally, I think Dark Phoenix completely destroyed the argument that X-Men was better with Fox.[/QUOTE]

Oh, on a sheer level of quality, yeah. Logan is a big outlier in terms of quality. (I'd throw the Wolverine, First Class, and maybe X2 in there)

[Hybrid]

Disney+ is a big advent. 2021 alone has seven connected MCU works. There's a lot of room, more room than ever.

[Agent Z]

Also, I'm really glad that Marvel is treating FF/X-Men properly again, and not shoving them off to the side so they can promote the Avengers. Do you really want that forever? That's what would've happened without the buyout.

Marvel hasn't given the FF any serious thought since the 80s when the X-Men were big. Now they are promoting several properties besides the X-men. If not for Fox and Sony having the X-Men and Spider-Man we may not have even gotten a Guardians of the Galaxy or Antman movie. So let's not pretend like Marvel has committed some grievous mistake because they remembered they have other properties to use after the X-Men were Marvel's number one priority for four and a half decades.

[Hybrid]

Marvel hasn't given the FF any serious thought since the 80s when the X-Men were big. Now they are promoting several properties besides the X-men. If not for Fox and Sony having the X-Men and Spider-Man we may not have even gotten a Guardians of the Galaxy or Antman movie. So let's not pretend like Marvel has committed some grievous mistake because they remembered they have other properties to use after the X-Men were Marvel's number one priority for four and a half decades.

I'd say the FF are in better shape now considering they even have a title. Remember, their series was cancelled in 2015 solely over film rights, and it was only late 2018 when it became clear Disney was buying Fox that they returned.

Also, let's not pretend that X-Men were the only focus throughout the '80s to the '00s. On top of the obvious Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four actually had as second golden era with John Byrne's run, there were other well-loved comics like the Avengers (!), Defenders, Daredevil, Power Pack, Cloak and Dagger, the Hulk, Thor, and so on. In the '90s, you may have had a point, as Marvel went all-in on "X", but to be perfectly fair, the '90s were a time of bad decisions in general.

In the '00s, the Avengers had a level of popularity to be recognizable even before their move to the heart of Marvel. In any case, Spider-Man and X-Men were the two most popular titles so of course they were going to promote them.

Problem with the Avengers promotion was that they very deliberately did it at the cost of the X-Men and the FF. Avengers work best as a group drawing from various heroes of lesser-status, and not "Marvel's Justice League". The X-Men were relegated into a Hell where they were kept with no promotion, no appearances in animation or video games, unimportant in massive crossovers, shoved into a corner where they were rarely interacted with the other Marvel characters to ensure they can't "taint" the MCU-available heroes, and all the while, they promoted the Inhumans as their replacement. Keep in mind that the Inhumans generally exist for most of their history as worldbuilding wallpaper, so to act like they're suddenly the new X-Men and that we should all accept them was so bad and so fake they failed to find an audience outside Kamala (who many find her Inhuman connection to be a weakness).

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that lesser heroes got their dues in the MCU and saw a promotion in status. The way you worded it, however, suggests that it didn't come at the cost of the FF/X-Men, when it very much did. Now that we have those, we can now bring in the things that were missing and get a universe on a new, unprecedented level.

[catbellysqueezer]

Wasn't ghost rider a fox property too?

[leokearon]

Wasn't ghost rider a fox property too?

Ghost Rider was Columbia/Sony

[catbellysqueezer]

Ghost Rider was Columbia/Sony

Oh yeah, you're right

[Agent Z]

I'd say the FF are in better shape now considering they even have a title. Remember, their series was cancelled in 2015 solely over film rights, and it was only late 2018 when it became clear Disney was buying Fox that they returned.

The FF had been cancelled twice before this. Even then, Reed at least still played a part in HickmanÂ’s Avengers.

Also, let's not pretend that X-Men were the only focus throughout the '80s to the '00s. On top of the obvious Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four actually had as second golden era with John Byrne's run, there were other well-loved comics like the Avengers (!), Defenders, Daredevil, Power Pack, Cloak and Dagger, the Hulk, Thor, and so on. In the '90s, you may have had a point, as Marvel went all-in on "X", but to be perfectly fair, the '90s were a time of bad decisions in general.

Most of these characters you mentioned were still in use even during the Avengers craze.

In the '00s, the Avengers had a level of popularity to be recognizable even before their move to the heart of Marvel. In any case, Spider-Man and X-Men were the two most popular titles so of course they were going to promote them.

So what is wrong with Marvel promoting the Avengers while theyÂ’re still popular?

Problem with the Avengers promotion was that they very deliberately did it at the cost of the X-Men and the FF.

Again, Marvel was having issues with the FF long before the Avengers
Avengers work best as a group drawing from various heroes of lesser-status, and not "Marvel's Justice League".
The Avengers had the likes of Spider-Woman, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage in their ranks during the 2000s and 2010s.

The X-Men were relegated into a Hell where they were kept with no promotion, no appearances in animation or video games, unimportant in massive crossovers, shoved into a corner where they were rarely interacted with the other Marvel characters to ensure they can't "taint" the MCU-available heroes, and all the while, they promoted the Inhumans as their replacement. Keep in mind that the Inhumans generally exist for most of their history as worldbuilding wallpaper, so to act like they're suddenly the new X-Men and that we should all accept them was so bad and so fake they failed to find an audience outside Kamala (who many find her Inhuman connection to be a weakness).

You are conflating two completely separate things here. The Avengers did not become popular at the cost of the X-Men and FF. That came from the movie and things like Bendis being attached to the comics. There was pettiness over not having access to the film rights but the Avengers push had nothing to do with it.
Plus, we still had stuff like Beast being used in HickmanÂ’s Avengers run and Kitty Pryde being Star-LordÂ’s girlfriend. There was an X-Men cartoon in 2009, video games and other merchandise in stores. The push to downplay the X-Men and FF came after the Avengers rise in popularity.
Tl;dr the push to make the Avengers more prominent was completely unrelated to the X-Men.