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  1. #556
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    Of course the MCU is blowing the DCEU out of the water. 23 movies to only 7 for the DCEU.
    We don't even have to compare ALL the marvel movies to the DCEU. It's not hard to compare JUST the ones where marvel and DC went head to head and see that marvel's attempt at a cohensive shared comic book universe frankl blew DCEU out of the water. I"m not even talking just money (though that's obviously the most objective standard of measurement), I'm talking about execution. Marvel achieved their vision, while DCEU has been fumbling and trying to recover.

  2. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    We don't even have to compare ALL the marvel movies to the DCEU. It's not hard to compare JUST the ones where marvel and DC went head to head and see that marvel's attempt at a cohensive shared comic book universe frankl blew DCEU out of the water. I"m not even talking just money (though that's obviously the most objective standard of measurement), I'm talking about execution. Marvel achieved their vision, while DCEU has been fumbling and trying to recover.
    Well, that’s your opinion, not fact. The only fact we can compare is the pace of the box office.

  3. #558
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    Well, that’s your opinion, not fact. The only fact we can compare is the pace of the box office.
    There are plenty of facts you can compare besides pace... you're just choosing that one to focus on because it's the only one where DCEU isn't literally being blown out of the water by marvel. Literally.

    I think it's more than fair to say they fumbled their vision of the DCEU by virtue of them abandoning their previous direction literally mid-movie. Marvel was able to string together 2 dozen into a cohesive narrative, while DC couldn't even meet them a quarter of the way to that.

    But if we want to go back to talking box office yeah... MCU kicks DCEU's behind.

  4. #559
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    What other fact?

  5. #560
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    What other fact?
    There are other ways of measuring box office besides pace which you can objectively measure. For example, you can compare which generated more money (which is obviously the MCU), ot you can compare which lost more money (which was the DCEU).

  6. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    I just said I did though. I still like the film and its certainly better than any MCU film, but I've never jumped up and down exited the film made a billion dollars because I know much of it was the Chinese audience and that reflects poorly on any film.
    I asked a few very specific questions, which you have (a second time now) refused to answer.

    Don’t you dare accuse anyone else of deflection ever again.

  7. #562
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Plenty of DCEU movies had audience reception problems. That's a big part of their problem. They made money up to a point, but still received a backlash from the audience. And eventually that backlash effected their bottom line, as Justice League ended up a flop due to how much money the studio lost even if it did okay at the box office.

    I'll agree critical reception isn't always a good measurement of quality. But that combined with box office sucess is as close to objectively defining a movie a sucess as you're going to get. If you can be both critically and commerciallu sucessful, you're good.
    DC was willing to take risks though I doubt the business people perceived them as risks. They went for a more serious approach, one that tried to explore the real impact of the existence of such beings. It backfired. To say "Man of Steel" got mixed reviews and mixed audience reaction is an understatement and that reaction was mild compared to B v S. I know people who didn't even see "Justice League" because of the first two and the feeling that DC has no clue what the movie-going audience wants.

    This is not my opinion of the movies but I'm stating the reactions I've seen. Still, the success of WW shows a superhero movie can be serious and successful. Aquaman shows DC has thrown in the towel and is doing their movies more like Marvel now and it clearly worked as far as box office.

    I think what it comes down to is that for these hundred million plus budget movies to be truly profitable, they have to be of a nature that people want to see them again and again. I thought "Million Dollar Baby" and "Birdman" were great movies and I loved seeing them once: the end. A lighthearted movie, though, is one I wouldn't mind seeing several times.
    Power with Girl is better.

  8. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    There are other ways of measuring box office besides pace which you can objectively measure. For example, you can compare which generated more money (which is obviously the MCU), ot you can compare which lost more money (which was the DCEU).
    Or the fact that just because my 5k pace is improving doesnt mean it's only a matter of time until I win the damn thing.

  9. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    DC was willing to take risks though I doubt the business people perceived them as risks. They went for a more serious approach, one that tried to explore the real impact of the existence of such beings. It backfired. To say "Man of Steel" got mixed reviews and mixed audience reaction is an understatement and that reaction was mild compared to B v S. I know people who didn't even see "Justice League" because of the first two and the feeling that DC has no clue what the movie-going audience wants.

    This is not my opinion of the movies but I'm stating the reactions I've seen. Still, the success of WW shows a superhero movie can be serious and successful. Aquaman shows DC has thrown in the towel and is doing their movies more like Marvel now and it clearly worked as far as box office.

    I think what it comes down to is that for these hundred million plus budget movies to be truly profitable, they have to be of a nature that people want to see them again and again. I thought "Million Dollar Baby" and "Birdman" were great movies and I loved seeing them once: the end. A lighthearted movie, though, is one I wouldn't mind seeing several times.
    Yeah, no. They tried to copy Chris Nolan without Chris Nolan and it ended predictably. That's not 'taking risks' imo.

  10. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    The Hong Kong film market isn't really that much different than any other English market. My point is two fold:
    > The fact that the MCU can thrive in a market with is stepped in anti-democratic thought means that there is nothing in these films that challenge this viewpoint or worse, could be viewed as even supporting this ideology.
    > That because the Chinese market is thoroughly censored anything that can slip through is likely so bland and mind numbing that its going to be generic no matter what. This is actually a fairly mainstream criticism of the MCU and Disney movies broadly.
    I agree, a high domestic box office doesn't mean a movie is any good, but a high Chinese box office is a clear indication that a movie is most likely bad (Aquaman being the obvious exception to the rule).

  11. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    I asked a few very specific questions, which you have (a second time now) refused to answer.

    Don’t you dare accuse anyone else of deflection ever again.
    Sigh, look you can disagree with Pinsir that there is a single MCU movie that is better than Aquaman but unless you can find any tangible proof besides box office, critical reactions, or audience score accumulators than I think this conversation is over.

  12. #567
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capNthor View Post
    Sigh, look you can disagree with Pinsir that there is a single MCU movie that is better than Aquaman but unless you can find any tangible proof besides box office, critical reactions, or audience score accumulators than I think this conversation is over.
    Lol Liking Aquaman hurts a DCEU fanboys position in my eyes. I loved Aquaman but it's a MCU movie with less detail to story and the spectacle turned up to max. Atleats when they hated all the MCU but loved the Snyder films I could say to myself "Ok, they just like that kind of movie. I get it". Same with Shazam but flipped. Shazam had less spectacle but had a much better story then Aquaman imo.

  13. #568
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Lol Liking Aquaman hurts a DCEU fanboys position in my eyes. I loved Aquaman but it's a MCU movie with less detail to story and the spectacle turned up to max. Atleats when they hated all the MCU but loved the Snyder films I could say to myself "Ok, they just like that kind of movie. I get it". Same with Shazam but flipped. Shazam had less spectacle but had a much better story then Aquaman imo.
    Yeah, in a lot of ways Aquaman embodies every criticism you can make against a marvel movie... and it was DC's most sucessful superhero movie since the start of the DCEU. Go figure.

    But Shazam gets props. Kept the spactacle and the budget low, and focused on what made the character unique. And that worked too. Not to the degre that it joined the billions dollar club, but it made a nice profit and got a nice reaction. DCEU should do more of this.

  14. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, in a lot of ways Aquaman embodies every criticism you can make against a marvel movie... and it was DC's most sucessful superhero movie since the start of the DCEU. Go figure.

    But Shazam gets props. Kept the spactacle and the budget low, and focused on what made the character unique. And that worked too. Not to the degre that it joined the billions dollar club, but it made a nice profit and got a nice reaction. DCEU should do more of this.
    I agree but I'm also down with More Aquaman type stuff. I really enjoyed it. On paper didnt feel like they had much in way of character for AC but Mamoa through sheer charm made that character work imo.

    I thought Shazam had much better story and drama but had way more fun watching Aquaman. DC should just keep things diverse. Movies like Aquaman,Shazam but still do movies like Synder envisoned... just dont better with the appropriate character. Like Reeves Batman. Joker looks fun and dark... as it should be. I hope DC doesnt give up on the shared universe but also gives us stand alone like Joker. But if Pattinson's Batman is a Hit and it fits just pretend Justice League never happened and try again in the future. But keep Mamoa and Gadot.

  15. #570
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    DC became a victim of bad circumstances. The marvel slanted bias did not help them at all either.

    Yes we can and should all admit Shazam and Aquaman were basically MCU movies but if Nolan had stayed and head-runned the DCEU, Things would have turned out differently for DC. DC is not fully to blame for becoming MCU clones. They really need the Joker film to succeed to get back to full DC mode again.

    I don't like watching a DC movie where their animated movies like the recent Hush and Batman and Harely Quinn is far less kid friendly, its cheating the minds of their loyal audience who have grown up with DC movies since the 70s and 80s and even some millennials that still sees the Nolan trilogy as the most defining DC movies.

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