Yeah it might be something similar in order to explain the origins of this Phoenix Wolverine. Well to be honest, I really liked how Aaron wrote Wolverine during the Marvel Legacy one shot so who knows it could be fun lol. But seriously I'm really curious about why Logan decided to become an host of the Phoenix Force.Originally Posted by TheCape
Of course now that you spoiled all the plot, I can see how everything makes sense! Onslaught a.k.a "Behold my mighty hand" is such a jerk so it's understandable that Logan decided to get the Phoenix force in order to teach him a lesson! Hope he didn't have to fight Cyber-Akuma though, this one is even more annoying to beat lol.
"The Legend of Hot Claws", not bad at all that's another thing for you to copyright! It kind of reminds of the legend of the Immortal Mr. Murderhands that Latour did during his Spider-Gwen run lol.
The revelation about how Weapon X managed to bond the adamantium to his skeleton in this universe was really messed up though.
Ah Mcniven is such a god, amazing inks! You know, you could be right, there might be a connection between the healing factor and the hot claws because on the last page of Dead Ends it seems there is something wrong with Logan's healing factor judging by the bandages on his hands.This view somehow backslashes me towards Logan's patch days , totally old school ...
Here some more DOW interior art
Attachment 70574
Attachment 70575
Btw i don't know if u remember about Logan's non healing capability or not which kinda of getting forgotten this days but maybe that was the reason behind those hot claws to bring his healing factor back to school ....LOL
Attachment 70576
What's strange is that Logan's healing powers seemed to work well against Ultron's goons and Loki in Infinity Countdown Prime so who knows, I hope there will be a good explanation during Return of Wolverine.
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09-09-2018, 12:15 PM #436Mighty Member
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09-10-2018, 01:02 AM #437Incredible Member
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Thank you for posting! Originally Posted by Hush
Originally Posted by Hush
I will pick up OMH, the art looks really good! Originally Posted by Hush
Christian Ward's art is amazing in these pictures, thank you for sharing! I may pick this up for the art alone!
lol! This is a great theory!! Originally Posted by TheCape
Future and past?, sounds like Aaron's first arc in Thor: God of Thunder. To be honest i'm more interested in the artwork because it looks awesome than the story itself, i'm more of a casual fan of Thor and althougth i came to appreciate Aaron's Wolverine, i don't feel the need to see his take again, this could be crazy fun thougth.
Also, i think that is obvious what happened here, after Logan came back to life he found inner peace in the cooking world, finally using his claws to feed people instead of killing then, until one day Onslaugth came again and wreck the place, in rage Wolverine decided to participate in the new Marvel vs Capcom tournament and he was the one the ended the thread once and for all, as a prize for his victory he became the new host of the Phoenix of the new millenia, The Legend of the Hot Claws would be known in the rest of the universe
. C'mon Marvel and Capcom make it happen 
.
Thank you! Originally Posted by biswaboxz
LOl look at Thor's face , i think he is going to faint after seeing his real all-father back from being normal which he didnt even knw about, to reclaim his throne from odin
.....lol
Speaking of art i just want to refurnish some " behind the scenes or interior stuff of ROW and DOW" art by Mcniven , i just cant wait ROW #1(although i dont like the hot claws) , He is one of my favorites artists for drawing Wolverine but sadly he is doing only two issues
Attachment 70545Attachment 70546Attachment 70547
Yes, Mc Niven's art is stunnig. It is a pity that he is only on 2 issues of RoW!Last edited by Gylfie; 09-10-2018 at 01:59 AM.
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09-10-2018, 01:38 AM #438Incredible Member
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In the Infinity Countdown Prime Loki also cut Logan to be sure, that he has a healing factor to distinguish Logan from 'pretenders' ! The Logan in The Hunt for Wolverine Mini bleed a lot ! Originally Posted by Hush
So we are dealing with doppelgangers without a healing factor.
Or:
I think to remember that J.D.White stated a long time ago in on of the x-day Monday chats on twitter, that in the marvel universe one needs a soul to have a healing factor. So take this with a grain of salt please, because it was a time back. (And I do not know if this contradicts continuity)
So if I remember this correctly, this could mean soteira was able to resurrect logan's body without mind and soul and used him like a puppet, like seen in claws of a killer. And the mystery of Logan's resurrection Ch. Soule is talking about is how Logan's mind and soul found his way back to his body! Is it nightmare enough, if you wake up after your death in a bloodshed your own resurrected body created? This could mean that he was slowly finding himself again in the situation soteira created and went rogue on soteira.
Another strange thing is, that in the early shown Mc.Niven art, Logan is back in costume. If this happens in the first issue, this is strange if we assume that Logan was resurrected by Soteira. The only explanation I can think in this kind of scenario would be a surreal inner struggle to find himself again. There was a picture were Logan is shown in costume seeing himself as Weapon x in a mirror like situation. ( In the original Weapon x story by Barry Windsor Smith there happened a lot only in Logans mind, imo)
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/07...f-wolverine-1/
Or you can have always the doppelganger theory.
But as you stated it does not explain why his healing factor seems to be weakened again! And this seems to be the real Logan! Urgh!!!
Maybe Persephone is about to take something from Logan. Hence the 'This will all be over soon! speech after she took of her cloves. (our 'special food theorie' comes to mind!)
We do not know about Persepone's powers yet. Given that her name is connected with the realm of the dead but also with spring and therefore new life.
But it does not explain the hot claws! I am tending to the explanation that they are a failed control mechanism installed by soteira, since Ch,Soule stated it is based on comic science.
Marvel created more questions than answers and I like that, but I really hope that RoW will deliver. Cant wait!Last edited by Gylfie; 09-10-2018 at 02:30 AM.
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09-10-2018, 07:06 AM #439Mighty Member
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You're welcome! Yeah Old Man Hawkeye is really good especially as a prequel to the original Old Man Logan story. Originally Posted by GylT'Nav
You know, that would make sense. Basically the Logan we saw during the Hunt was just a "husk" without a soul, but something happened in the meantime and Logan found his way back to his own body somehow and that could be what Soteira was trying to replicate during the Maybelle experiment. That would also explain Sabretooth's comments about Graydon's behavior during Claws of a Killer when he said that Graydon wasn't fighting like his normal self but that someone else was pulling the strings. Originally Posted by GylT'Nav
In the Infinity Countdown Prime Loki also cut Logan to be sure, that he has a healing factor to distinguish Logan from 'pretenders' ! The Logan in The Hunt for Wolverine Mini bleed a lot !
So we are dealing with doppelgangers without a healing factor.
Or:
I think to remember that J.D.White stated a long time ago in on of the x-day Monday chats on twitter, that in the marvel universe one needs a soul to have a healing factor. So take this with a grain of salt please, because it was a time back. (And I do not know if this contradicts continuity)
So if I remember this correctly, this could mean soteira was able to resurrect logan's body without mind and soul and used him like a puppet, like seen in claws of a killer. And the mystery of Logan's resurrection Ch. Soule is talking about is how Logan's mind and soul found his way back to his body! Is it nightmare enough, if you wake up after your death in a bloodshed your own resurrected body created? This could mean that he was slowly finding himself again in the situation soteira created and went rogue on soteira.
Another strange thing is, that in the early shown Mc.Niven art, Logan is back in costume. If this happens in the first issue, this is strange if we assume that Logan was resurrected by Soteira. The only explanation I can think in this kind of scenario would be a surreal inner struggle to find himself again. There was a picture were Logan is shown in costume seeing himself as Weapon x in a mirror like situation. ( In the original Weapon x story by Barry Windsor Smith there happened a lot only in Logans mind, imo)
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/07...f-wolverine-1/
Or you can have always the doppelganger theory.
But as you stated it does not explain why his healing factor seems to be weakened again! And this seems to be the real Logan! Urgh!!!
Maybe Persephone is about to take something from Logan. Hence the 'This will all be over soon! speech after she took of her cloves. (our 'special food theorie' comes to mind!)
We do not know about Persepone's powers yet. Given that her name is connected with the realm of the dead but also with spring and therefore new life.
But it does not explain the hot claws! I am tending to the explanation that they are a failed control mechanism installed by soteira, since Ch,Soule stated it is based on comic science.
Marvel created more questions than answers and I like that, but I really hope that RoW will deliver. Cant wait!
In a way that's similar to what happened to Logan during the Wolverine goes to Hell saga where his soul was trapped in hell and his body was used as a living weapon by a demon. Although despite the lack of soul, his healing factor was still working but we can put that on the magical abilities of Hellverine lol.
But yeah there is still the problem of the Logan from Infinity Countdown Prime/Legacy/X-Men Gold/Where is Wolverine, he seemed pretty normal here, no hot claws, no mindcontrol and his healing factor was working perfectly. Also the fact that Soteira was looking for Logan in Madripoor when they hired Viper, the same place where Logan gave Black Widow his space gem is raising questions.
Honestly after the revelations during the Hunt I'm not sure about the doppelganger theory anymore but who knows it could still be possible especially after what Declan Shalvey said about the "sushi chef" costume and how it wasn't designed for Wolverine but it was just something he found.
Regarding Logan's classic costume, I wouldn't be surprised if everything we saw in the preview is taking place inside his head or it's somekind of a simulation similar to what happened to him during the Weapon X experiment as you said. Especially this scene with the Sabretooth tiger, the mammoth and all the blood and dead bodies lying everywhere:
But indeed I agree with you, Soule really managed to create a good mystery about Logan's return although I'm not sure if almost 20 issues were needed for that lol.
And like you I really hope Return of Wolverine will deliver especially after all this build-up!
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09-10-2018, 09:37 AM #440BANNED
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Yeah it's more or less like Windsor's Weapon X all over again ,btw I am actually kinda of satisfied that ROW has only 5 issues to discover the mystery of Logan's resurrection because prolonged special issues like HFW or even resurrection of jean grey really created boring and stupid stuff u know Originally Posted by Hush
You're welcome! Yeah Old Man Hawkeye is really good especially as a prequel to the original Old Man Logan story.
You know, that would make sense. Basically the Logan we saw during the Hunt was just a "husk" without a soul, but something happened in the meantime and Logan found his way back to his own body somehow and that could be what Soteira was trying to replicate during the Maybelle experiment. That would also explain Sabretooth's comments about Graydon's behavior during Claws of a Killer when he said that Graydon wasn't fighting like his normal self but that someone else was pulling the strings.
In a way that's similar to what happened to Logan during the Wolverine goes to Hell saga where his soul was trapped in hell and his body was used as a living weapon by a demon. Although despite the lack of soul, his healing factor was still working but we can put that on the magical abilities of Hellverine lol.
But yeah there is still the problem of the Logan from Infinity Countdown Prime/Legacy/X-Men Gold/Where is Wolverine, he seemed pretty normal here, no hot claws, no mindcontrol and his healing factor was working perfectly. Also the fact that Soteira was looking for Logan in Madripoor when they hired Viper, the same place where Logan gave Black Widow his space gem is raising questions.
Honestly after the revelations during the Hunt I'm not sure about the doppelganger theory anymore but who knows it could still be possible especially after what Declan Shalvey said about the "sushi chef" costume and how it wasn't designed for Wolverine but it was just something he found.
Regarding Logan's classic costume, I wouldn't be surprised if everything we saw in the preview is taking place inside his head or it's somekind of a simulation similar to what happened to him during the Weapon X experiment as you said. Especially this scene with the Sabretooth tiger, the mammoth and all the blood and dead bodies lying everywhere:
But indeed I agree with you, Soule really managed to create a good mystery about Logan's return although I'm not sure if almost 20 issues were needed for that lol.
And like you I really hope Return of Wolverine will deliver especially after all this build-up!
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09-10-2018, 09:38 AM #441BANNED
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Yeah it's more or less like Windsor's Weapon X all over again ,btw I am actually kinda of satisfied that ROW has only 5 issues to discover the mystery of Logan's resurrection because prolonged special issues like HFW or even resurrection of jean grey really created boring and stupid stuff u know Originally Posted by Hush
You're welcome! Yeah Old Man Hawkeye is really good especially as a prequel to the original Old Man Logan story.
You know, that would make sense. Basically the Logan we saw during the Hunt was just a "husk" without a soul, but something happened in the meantime and Logan found his way back to his own body somehow and that could be what Soteira was trying to replicate during the Maybelle experiment. That would also explain Sabretooth's comments about Graydon's behavior during Claws of a Killer when he said that Graydon wasn't fighting like his normal self but that someone else was pulling the strings.
In a way that's similar to what happened to Logan during the Wolverine goes to Hell saga where his soul was trapped in hell and his body was used as a living weapon by a demon. Although despite the lack of soul, his healing factor was still working but we can put that on the magical abilities of Hellverine lol.
But yeah there is still the problem of the Logan from Infinity Countdown Prime/Legacy/X-Men Gold/Where is Wolverine, he seemed pretty normal here, no hot claws, no mindcontrol and his healing factor was working perfectly. Also the fact that Soteira was looking for Logan in Madripoor when they hired Viper, the same place where Logan gave Black Widow his space gem is raising questions.
Honestly after the revelations during the Hunt I'm not sure about the doppelganger theory anymore but who knows it could still be possible especially after what Declan Shalvey said about the "sushi chef" costume and how it wasn't designed for Wolverine but it was just something he found.
Regarding Logan's classic costume, I wouldn't be surprised if everything we saw in the preview is taking place inside his head or it's somekind of a simulation similar to what happened to him during the Weapon X experiment as you said. Especially this scene with the Sabretooth tiger, the mammoth and all the blood and dead bodies lying everywhere:
But indeed I agree with you, Soule really managed to create a good mystery about Logan's return although I'm not sure if almost 20 issues were needed for that lol.
And like you I really hope Return of Wolverine will deliver especially after all this build-up!
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09-10-2018, 10:16 PM #442Incredible Member
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It is not finished yet, but:
Yep, the artist change is going to be jarring:
it is a WIP from Declan Shalvey for RoW:
source:
https://twitter.com/declanshalvey/st...74851755126784
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09-11-2018, 02:54 AM #443Mighty Member
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Yeah 5 issues should be more than enough, my comment about the 20 issues was referring to the Hunt for Wolverine and how all those issues weren't needed to build this mystery. Originally Posted by biswaboxz
I think either 4 oversized one shot or just a short weekly series would have been more than enough for the Hunt, but almost 20 issues was overkill lol. Fortunately in the end you only needed to read the Hunt one shot and Dead Ends so it's fine if you only cared about Soteira or Wolverine.
Originally Posted by GylT'Nav
Thanks for sharing! As much as I like Shalvey's art it's never a good idea to put two artists with completely different art styles on a 5 issues mini (except if it's for story reasons) and it's something that Marvel has done too many times in recent years and more recently with Secret Empire. I can understand why they want to do that with Return of Wolverine in order to avoid any delay (like what happened with Secret Wars), but honestly I prefer to wait a little more and have one artist draw the whole thing.
By the way for people who are not familiar with Declan Shalvey, here are some panels from the superb The Good, the Bad and the Ugly story (one of the few times he drew Wolverine). The first picture is from Deadpool #18 and it's one of my favourite, the art is really atmospheric and really shows Logan's state of mind after the Weapon X experiment but it also shows how much Duggan and Posehn understands Wolverine as a character:
This one is just for fun (also from the same story):
He's a really good artist (I think his best work was on Moon Knight) but as you can see his art is completely different from Mcniven so the shift between the two art styles is really going to be jarring unfortunately. Honestly if Marvel knew that Mcniven could only draw two of the five issues they should have let Shalvey draw the whole thing.
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09-11-2018, 03:10 AM #444Incredible Member
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Originally Posted by Hush
Yeah 5 issues should be more than enough, my comment about the 20 issues was referring to the Hunt for Wolverine and how all those issues weren't needed to build this mystery.
I think either 4 oversized one shot or just a short weekly series would have been more than enough for the Hunt, but almost 20 issues was overkill lol. Fortunately in the end you only needed to read the Hunt one shot and Dead Ends so it's fine if you only cared about Soteira or Wolverine.
Thanks for sharing! As much as I like Shalvey's art it's never a good idea to put two artists with completely different art styles on a 5 issues mini (except if it's for story reasons) and it's something that Marvel has done too many times in recent years and more recently with Secret Empire. I can understand why they want to do that with Return of Wolverine in order to avoid any delay (like what happened with Secret Wars), but honestly I prefer to wait a little more and have one artist draw the whole thing.
By the way for people who are not familiar with Declan Shalvey, here are some panels from the superb The Good, the Bad and the Ugly story (one of the few times he drew Wolverine). The first picture is from Deadpool #18 and it's one of my favourite, the art is really atmospheric and really shows Logan's state of mind after the Weapon X experiment but it also shows how much Duggan and Posehn understands Wolverine as a character:
This one is just for fun (also from the same story):
He's a really good artist (I think his best work was on Moon Knight) but as you can see his art is completely different from Mcniven so the shift between the two art styles is really going to be jarring unfortunately. Honestly if Marvel knew that Mcniven could only draw two of the five issues they should have let Shalvey draw the whole thing.
I agree with everything you wrote about the whole 'event'!!
Thank you, those panels are great! The Good, the Bad and the Ugly is now on my 'to pick up' list!
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09-11-2018, 08:21 AM #445BANNED
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Originally Posted by Hush
I think something really nasty happened between Soule and Mcniven because Mcniven was working with him from DOW to Uncanny Inhumans and now ROW for almost 3 to 4 yrs and Mcniven said about his work as an artist on an interview about Millar's OML back during 2008s or 2009s............
"Yeah, I have drawn a bunch of the Marvel characters, but most not in any real depth, so there still are many characters out there to have some fun with. Really though I don't tend to chase characters. I chase the writers . A great writer can make almost any character compelling enough for me to want to work on. A terrible writer can ruin your enthusiasm , sap your strength and it shows on the page. But if I were to just look at the Marvel characters that I'd like to draw more of then I'd probably could have some fun with the X-Men, maybe the Hulk and definitely Spidey again because he's such a huge challenge to capture artistically and I don't think I've really got a good feel for him yet. Genre wise I'd love to do some Sci fi and Fantasy based stuff as I'm an avid book reader. If you haven't read anything by Alastair Reynolds, or Matthew Stover, do yourself a favor and go check them out."
http://www.livingbetweenwednesdays.com/blog/1371
His favorite character was Spider-Man which really pisses but at the same time i am glad >D that he didn't do much with Spider-man(only during CW)........
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09-11-2018, 08:37 AM #446Extraordinary Member
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Sorry for not responding, copyright is a messy business. thank god that Matt Murdock guy has been of great help for me, that was a great recommendation Originally Posted by Hush
.
What did he write with Logan in Marvel Legacy?
Yeah that Onslaught is such a jerk lol. i'm pretty sure that he beat Cyber Akuma no one can stop the anger of Hot Claws after all.
I lost interest on Spider-Gwen after the first arc of his ongoing, loved the origin and the artwork, but a lot of the series has feel like to much style and little substance, that Wolverine backstory is kind of cool thought. What did they do in the bonding process this time?
McNiven is an amazing artist, say what you want about Death Of Wolverine but it looked great, i really like how he drawn Logan in the second issue when he went to Madripoor in that bar.
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09-11-2018, 08:41 AM #447Extraordinary Member
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I second Hush in this recommendation, you won't regret it!!! Originally Posted by GylT'Nav
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09-11-2018, 12:34 PM #448Mighty Member
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You're welcome! As TheCape said you won't regret it, it's an amazing story! Originally Posted by GylT'Nav
Interesting that he loves drawing Spider-Man because apart from Civil War, New Avengers and Secret Empire I don't think he drew web-head that much in the past (but the few times he did it was great in my opinion). I remember the interview at the end of Death of Wolverine #4, he said he loves drawing Wolverine and working with Charles Soule too so who knows. Originally Posted by biswaboxz
Honestly I think the new art style he developed for Return of Wolverine might be the reason he won't draw the whole mini. It could be more difficult for Mcniven to draw with this new art style.
Originally Posted by TheCape
No problem! Ah so true, thanks god for Matt Murdock lol. Poor Cyber Akuma, Hot Claws FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He wrote the Legacy one shot, the scene where Logan is driving the Beer truck and run over the frost Giant, decapitates him, uses his open rib cage to keep his beer cold and gets the space stone. Now that's how you make an entrance! But seriously of all the way to bring back Wolverine this one was amazing.
Well to be honest I've only read this arc of Spider-Gwen lol but basically the Weapon X project and Stryker couldn't bond the adamantium to Logan's bones so they forced a young Kitty Pryde to phase the adamantium directly into Logan's skeleton.
Weapon X and Stryker were really ruthless in this reality.
Soule was really lucky that Mcniven drew Death of Wolverine because apart from the art (even if Mcniven was less impressive in the last issue in my opinion) and Soule's characterization of Logan this mini was really a rushed job in the end.
But yeah that scene in the bar was great, I think my favourite rendition of Logan during Death of Wolverine was in the very first scene with a bloody Logan looking at sky:
By the way Newsarama made a gallery of all the Return of Wolverine variant covers announced so far:
https://www.newsarama.com/41150-loga...-variants.html
I love this one:
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09-11-2018, 01:59 PM #449BANNED
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Maybe i am pushing this thing but imo i think this two panels of like DOW #4 were my best moments on DOW ... It just that people may have not noticed it yet but this is how Logan's most notable views should be defined ........ Originally Posted by Hush
Attachment 70650
When Dr Cornelius asked Logan that what did Logan ever do but killing people in his life then Logan started to remember
moments of his life which made him realize that he had lived a life with satisfaction therefore he said "enough". I mean naturally heroes and their supporting characters dies on their arms but Logan died as a loner in the end but in a best way possible ............
Death-of-Wolverine-04-(of-04)-(2014)-(Digital)-(Nahga-Empire)-021.jpgLast edited by Vishop; 09-11-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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09-12-2018, 03:41 AM #450Incredible Member
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Those last pages are really beautiful. Especially the scenes in the sunset, if you remember that Logan told Kitty in their last conversation, that he was tired and was tempted to see a sunset one last time and kill himself. Originally Posted by biswaboxz
...
When Dr Cornelius asked Logan that what did Logan ever do but killing people in his life then Logan started to remember moments of his life which made him realize that he had lived a life with satisfaction therefore he said "enough". I mean naturally heroes and their supporting characters dies on their arms but Logan died as a loner in the end but in a best way possible ............
Death-of-Wolverine-04-(of-04)-(2014)-(Digital)-(Nahga-Empire)-021.jpg
In the same conversation Logan said that if he would come out alive he just wanted to disappear and just wanted to live out his live at a nice place. Retire so to speak. Ch. Soule mentioned in an interview that if the reader had read DoW, the decisions Logan makes in RoW become more intersting.
source: https://www.cbr.com/return-of-wolver...w-hot-claws/2/...I consider Death of Wolverine (DoW), Hunt for Wolverine (HfW) and Return of Wolverine (RoW) to be a trilogy, full-stop. While I didn’t know I’d be doing the latter two projects when I wrote Death of Wolverine, I used it as the basic building block for everything that comes after. The decisions Logan makes in RoW become more interesting when viewed through the lens of DoW, and HfW gives you a good sense of the backdrop to the RoW story....
In addition:
This link was posted a wile back. It is a toy which will be released Nov. 2018-Jan.2019
https://www.mezcotoyz.com/one-12-collective-logan. I did not payed much attention to the description until that interview of Soule.
I think the description may be a bit spoilery. I do not know how close Marvel cooperates with the company, but this in connection with Ch. Soule's interview may hint to the direction Marvel could give an new ongoing, if they want to make Wolverine the name of an antihero again.
spoilers:
end of spoilersBorn James Howlett, Logan was one of the most prolific X-Men before his tenure as Wolverine came to an end. Now in search of a quieter life, Logan must face the limited nature of his regenerative abilities while also coming to the aid of those who need his help.
Well, it never last long for Logan, but sill....!
What do you guys think?
But the main reason for my posting is:
I got two episodes of Wolverine: The Long Night on free podcast today. It is really great!
Thats how you build up a mystery!lol!!
spoilers:
end of spoilersIt focus on two agents investigating a savage murder on a fisher ship's crew. Logan does not appear in person in this two episodes, but there is a lot of talk (or flashbacks) as they talk to their witnesses about him, hence he is the main subject. It jumps repeatedly back in time and back to the present as the agents reports their investigation in flashbacks, so it is far from boring.
You will hear Richard Armitage as Wolverine in the end of episode 2 as the agents find a letter written by Logan. His voice is a perfect fit for Logan!!
I do not want to spoil anything further, just check it out!!
OML #47 was ok, a nice transition issue leading into the last arc! Love OMLogan and Puck together!!Last edited by Gylfie; 09-12-2018 at 04:19 AM.
