Apocalypse vs Juggernaut

[The Arbiter]

If parts of him are flaking off for the act of punching something, it certainly looks like that thing is doing a good job helping blunt his punch, especially when it's something specifically magically enchanted to ruin his day.

You have just decided this. The whole enchantment was to boost its offensive ability to cut through celestial armor. That's it. Cut it.

Name any narration or context where they say "this axe designed for cutting is also a super duper blunt force absorber" beyond some flakes.

Let's roll with it. Let's say in fact, the celestial armor is allergic to jarnborn and flakes whenever it's close. It's still the force of Apocs actual fist being deflected. If I'm wearing chainmail or tinfoil around my wrist, my punch is still my punch.

Edit: the dude even said "I am more than my armor" implying it's defensive nature was hardly all he had going for him in his mind

[Pendaran]

Clearly you've never enjoyed Colonel GM s threads before lol. The dude is notorious for nerfing character options by declaring "no TP" in the OP.

Don't forget no battlefield removal, and if you point out anything else that would make this something other than "trade punches", he'll get rid of that too.

Troll threads got to troll.

[The Arbiter]

Young Thor dropped him in one blow. Unworthy Thor needed multiple. Getting around that is.. not something that can be got around.

Hell, Young Thor dropped him in one blow despite being visibly injured.

Again, that's an awesome feat for the Axe. I mean, it also did up an actual Celestial once right? Which Thor did that?

[The Arbiter]

Don't forget no battlefield removal, and if you point out anything else that would make this something other than "trade punches", he'll get rid of that too.

Troll threads got to troll.

Why doesn't ColonelGM ever get the "you must transform into something bad and undesirable" treatment from you huh? HUH? *flips patties*
:P

[Pendaran]

You have just decided this. The whole enchantment was to boost its offensive ability to cut through celestial armor. That's it. Cut it.

Name any narration or context where they say "this axe designed for cutting is also a super duper blunt force absorber" beyond some flakes.

Let's roll with it. Let's say in fact, the celestial armor is allergic to jarnborn and flakes whenever it's close. It's still the force of Apocs actual fist being deflected. If I'm wearing chainmail or tinfoil around my wrist, my punch is still my punch.

Dude, if someone hits something and actual pieces of them come off for hitting it, I'm sorry to tell you that I am super cool with feeling that it was a bad idea that they hit that thing and it messed with how well they hit.

There's no analogy here because that's... not something that analogizes to a real world situation.

No, let me try one. It's like if you hit a shield and.. hell, I don't know, you visible squares of your skin started flying in the air because you hit it. How well do you think your hit bypassed that shield as far as force beyond it?

Even /that/ analogy is terrible because you're trying to compare "a guy hit a thing and parts of the thing that are where most of his power is presented as being centered flaked off because he did" to chainmail or tinfoil around your wrist.

You are not helping yourself with this "I'll post like you!" thing.

This is not working out for you.

[theoneandonly]

another major characteristic is that he never engages in debate on who he thinks will win if he can help it.

[The Dork Knight]

The Hulk was actually doing fine at that point. He /sometimes/ had those issues.

The fact that he had issues by itself makes showings from that period dubious. If he's wincing from an animal roaring, and collapsing pages later while Logan comments on how the Trex was ragdolling him how seriously can one take his other showings

[Pendaran]

Again, that's an awesome feat for the Axe. I mean, it also did up an actual Celestial once right? Which Thor did that?

It sure is an awesome feat for the axe, and it means by direct comparison, Modern Thor used it less well on Apocalypse. To keep saying instead that Modern Thor did better in his fight is to ignore that.

Dropping an opponent in one shot is better than dropping the exact same guy in multiple shots despite using the exact same weapon. That's just how it is.

[The Arbiter]

You are not helping yourself with this "I'll post like you!" thing.

This is not working out for you.

What?

Anyways, I remain unconvinced that because the armor was damaged from the punch, the punch didn't happen as an argument.

[The Dork Knight]

Again, that's an awesome feat for the Axe. I mean, it also did up an actual Celestial once right? Which Thor did that?

Current Thor. One Shotted exitar

[The Arbiter]

It sure is an awesome feat for the axe, and it means by direct comparison, Modern Thor used it less well on Apocalypse. To keep saying instead that Modern Thor did better in his fight is to ignore that.

Dropping an opponent in one shot is better than dropping the exact same guy in multiple shots despite using the exact same weapon. That's just how it is.

Yeah but who did up the actual Celestial with it? Unworthy Thor?

[The Arbiter]

Current Thor. One Shotted exitar

Thank you. Considering just how tough Exitar is in comparison to Apoc...

Seems like it one shots celestial stuff. Except inexplicably when unworthy Thor fought Apoc

[Pendaran]

The fact that he had issues by itself makes showings from that period dubious. If he's wincing from an animal roaring, and collapsing pages later while Logan comments on how the Trex was ragdolling him how seriously can one take his other showings

He did various salutary things in that period and had prolonged stretches where he didn't wince or collapse or the like or evidence impairment. Unless he's actually showing weakness in a given moment, that is wayyy too broad an attempt to disqualify things. He sometimes had those issues, and other times he didn't.

[Pendaran]

Thank you. Considering just how tough Exitar is in comparison to Apoc...

Seems like it one shots celestial stuff. Except inexplicably when unworthy Thor fought Apoc

I know you guys are actually like this is some big gotcha post, but it's mostly just going back on yourselves.

The second Apoc fight was invoked as "Older Thor did so much better". The second Apoc fight being the one where he needed well more hits to drop Apocalypse.

You haven't actually changed this.

Have we moved on from that then? Are we now on "fine, Older Thor didn't do better on Apocalypse, but instead he did this!"

[The Dork Knight]

Young Thor dropped him in one blow. Unworthy Thor needed multiple. Getting around that is.. not something that can be got around.

Hell, Young Thor dropped him in one blow despite being visibly injured.

This is the first time Apocalypse faced him with that axe, the time before that his axe did nothing at all, in fact Poccy specifically remarks that (in the instance he got one Shotted) that even if he hit him it wouldn't matter because of his armour. Plus he believed the fight was pretty much over. So a combination of surprise and not knowing

The fight in the present he was more experienced and knew what to expect