Kryptonian powers need to be toned down a bit...

[marhawkman]

It's sad, but somewhat accurate. We constantly are trying to reign Superman in but Batman becomes more and more a creature of fantasy each passing day.

Like when Batman dodged Darkseid's Omega Beams... It doesn't make sense unless Darkseid missed intentionally. Darkseid actually controls their path. Those zigzags are because Darkseid wanted them to zig zag. Seriously, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-iS17yAyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHznPjmhcJo
how does it make sense for Batman to actually dodge THAT when Kryptonians doing a speed blitz have a hard time avoiding it??

[Robanker]

Like when Batman dodged Darkseid's Omega Beams... It doesn't make sense unless Darkseid missed intentionally. Darkseid actually controls their path. Those zigzags are because Darkseid wanted them to zig zag. Seriously, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-iS17yAyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHznPjmhcJo
how does it make sense for Batman to actually dodge THAT when Kryptonians doing a speed blitz have a hard time avoiding it??

Because he trained in a cave when he was seventeen. Duh.

Kryptonian powers are fine. It's not even all Kryptonians. Even when DC is trying to convince readers that Supergirl is totally stronger than Superman, when has she, Zod, or any other Kryptonian been able to pull off what Clark has? He's special. That's part of what makes him interesting. The powers aren't everything but they elevate the scale of his stories.

In my experience, the absolute worst people to put in charge of what to do with Superman are people who don't like him. Mangling a property to fit the needs of people who never liked it to begin with is misguided. The best path is always to dial in on what makes your character strong while shoring up weakness. He doesn't pull a galaxy on a chain anymore and that's fine.

[marhawkman]

Because he trained in a cave when he was seventeen. Duh.

Yeah really, this requires "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge an Omega Beam" to be sound logic. Like you said, it "strains credulity"(as Barbarossa would put it).

Kryptonian powers are fine. It's not even all Kryptonians. Even when DC is trying to convince readers that Supergirl is totally stronger than Superman, when has she, Zod, or any other Kryptonian been able to pull off what Clark has? He's special. That's part of what makes him interesting. The powers aren't everything but they elevate the scale of his stories.

Haha, Blackrock once said Kara was stronger, but that's really just because Kara was hitting harder. Lucia changed her mind when Superman quit being nice.

In my experience, the absolute worst people to put in charge of what to do with Superman are people who don't like him. Mangling a property to fit the needs of people who never liked it to begin with is misguided. The best path is always to dial in on what makes your character strong while shoring up weakness. He doesn't pull a galaxy on a chain anymore and that's fine.

I love how Supes is so inspirational he inspires villains to be better(less villainous) people.

[Agent Z]

Like when Batman dodged Darkseid's Omega Beams... It doesn't make sense unless Darkseid missed intentionally. Darkseid actually controls their path. Those zigzags are because Darkseid wanted them to zig zag. Seriously, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-iS17yAyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHznPjmhcJo
how does it make sense for Batman to actually dodge THAT when Kryptonians doing a speed blitz have a hard time avoiding it??

The scene of Batman dodging the omega beams was followed by Superman punching Darkseid halfway across the city. Both Superman and Batman suffer from a case of being as powerful or weak as the story calls for. The same Batman that dodged Darkseid's omega beams was later shown needing a cane to walk and having heart problems.

[manwhohaseverything]

The scene of Batman dodging the omega beams was followed by Superman punching Darkseid halfway across the city. Both Superman and Batman suffer from a case of being as powerful or weak as the story calls for. The same Batman that dodged Darkseid's omega beams was later shown needing a cane to walk and having heart problems.

How is Superman(fully unleashed ) punching darkseid across the city out of the realm of possibility for superman? Especially, since superman had beaten darkseid two times before that event.Batgod on the otherhand is should be paste like dan turpin . Yeah! He needed a cane when he was shown to be what? 80 something. He still managed to beat a woof with same stick in that condition.I am assuming we are talking about dcau continuity.There wasn't any episode were batgod wasn't in full display in dcau. Meanwhile, clark was being nerfed left and right.

[DochaDocha]

The scene of Batman dodging the omega beams was followed by Superman punching Darkseid halfway across the city. Both Superman and Batman suffer from a case of being as powerful or weak as the story calls for. The same Batman that dodged Darkseid's omega beams was later shown needing a cane to walk and having heart problems.

Personally, I think the whole Omega-dodging was just Bruce Timm being Bruce Timm and needlessly pumping up Batman's coolness. However, to make that scene less irritating, I recall that in a previous episode, Darkseid's Omegas whiffed on Superman, and earlier in this episode he lies (or forgets) and says every time he fought Superman he beat Supes. So, Darkseid has selective memory, or is a flat out liar. Maybe in this continuity his Omegas miss pretty frequently and he's so insecure he had to say missing Batman was a first.

[manwhohaseverything]

Personally, I think the whole Omega-dodging was just Bruce Timm being Bruce Timm and needlessly pumping up Batman's coolness. However, to make that scene less irritating, I recall that in a previous episode, Darkseid's Omegas whiffed on Superman, and earlier in this episode he lies (or forgets) and says every time he fought Superman he beat Supes. So, Darkseid has selective memory, or is a flat out liar. Maybe in this continuity his Omegas miss pretty frequently and he's so insecure he had to say missing Batman was a first.

If i recall correctly, darkseid did beat him the first time they met. The second time clark may have won the physical battle but lost the war. Clark became a pariah and pawn like darkseid said And darkseid's apocalyptian slaves rejected Clark's freedom. Which was a bigger slap for clark. All in all, when darkseid say clark has never beaten him. He was kinda right.Darkseid-kal el rivalry was one of the better things bruce timm did. New gods were pretty cool in tas. Turpin's death, his own alienation from people of the earth was started by Darkseid. This arc came to close in justice league unlimited in his speech were he pleads guilty of hubris to the people. In a way, clark was overcompensating to win back the people by nuclear disarmament of the world at the start of justice league. That didn't workout well since they became sitting ducks for the aliens. So, he formed the justice league with the martian and batman to fix that and alleviate his loneliness. But, it caused him to identify himself more with and care more for his meta human colleagues, more than normal people. That's also why wally became so important.Raceing with wally might have been the first time clark felt normal around another person.

[DochaDocha]

If i recall correctly, darkseid did beat him the first time they met. The second time clark may have won the physical battle but lost the war. Clark became a pariah and pawn like darkseid said And darkseid's apocalyptian slaves rejected Clark's freedom. Which was a bigger slap for clark. All in all, when darkseid say clark has never beaten him. He was kinda right.Darkseid-kal el rivalry was one of the better things bruce timm did. New gods were pretty cool in tas. Turpin's death, his own alienation from people of the earth was started by Darkseid. This arc came to close in justice league unlimited in his speech were he pleads guilty of hubris to the people. In a way, clark was overcompensating to win back the people by nuclear disarmament of the world at the start of justice league. That didn't workout well since they became sitting ducks for the aliens. So, he formed the justice league with the martian and batman to fix that and alleviate his loneliness. But, it caused him to identify himself more with and care more for his meta human colleagues, more than normal people. That's also why wally became so important.Raceing with wally might have been the first time clark felt normal around another person.

Don't forget in the S2 opener, Superman completely whoops Darkseid. That was their final confrontation before Darkseid's resurrection, so Darkseid either lied or forgot about getting humbled in that fight. Superman was going to finish him off.

[manwhohaseverything]

Don't forget in the S2 opener, Superman completely whoops Darkseid. That was their final confrontation before Darkseid's resurrection, so Darkseid either lied or forgot about getting humbled in that fight. Superman was going to finish him off.

Do you mean this? Then darkseid is right. He had beaten and humbled him prior to this fight. Tas had darkseid win. Clark lost his place among people.

[DochaDocha]

Do you mean this? Then darkseid is right. He had beaten and humbled him prior to this fight. Tas had darkseid win. Clark lost his place among people.

I did a search for the script of the last JLU episode to see if I was remembering the dialogue correctly. I'm a bit off, but here's a copy/paste:

Darkseid: I'm more powerful than I've ever been. And the last time we met, you barely managed to hold your own.
Superman: Funny, that's not how I remember it.
Darkseid: Allow me to refresh your memory.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.c...episode=s03e13

So I guess it's a little subjective on whether or not Superman was "barely able to hold [his] own." But that's usually said to the guy who either lost or didn't definitively lose but barely survived by the skin of his teeth, and I don't think that's the case here. I call it a definitive win for Superman, and if the fight went on a few more minutes then Darkseid was going to die. Of course, he died anyway...

EDIT: Oh yeah, in the linked video at the 2:38 mark, this is where we see Darkseid miss Superman with the Omegas, so in this universe Darkseid has missed his mark more than once, and maybe even a few times off screen. The stuff about Batman being the only guy to dodge Omegas is BS in many senses.

[marhawkman]

Personally, I think the whole Omega-dodging was just Bruce Timm being Bruce Timm and needlessly pumping up Batman's coolness. However, to make that scene less irritating, I recall that in a previous episode, Darkseid's Omegas whiffed on Superman, and earlier in this episode he lies (or forgets) and says every time he fought Superman he beat Supes. So, Darkseid has selective memory, or is a flat out liar. Maybe in this continuity his Omegas miss pretty frequently and he's so insecure he had to say missing Batman was a first.

IIRC Darkseid has to mentally focus to target the beams, so if his focus lapses his aim does too. Not sure if that has any bearing on him fighting Batman though.

[manwhohaseverything]

I did a search for the script of the last JLU episode to see if I was remembering the dialogue correctly. I'm a bit off, but here's a copy/paste:



So I guess it's a little subjective on whether or not Superman was "barely able to hold [his] own." But that's usually said to the guy who either lost or didn't definitively lose but barely survived by the skin of his teeth, and I don't think that's the case here. I call it a definitive win for Superman, and if the fight went on a few more minutes then Darkseid was going to die. Of course, he died anyway...

EDIT: Oh yeah, in the linked video at the 2:38 mark, this is where we see Darkseid miss Superman with the Omegas, so in this universe Darkseid has missed his mark more than once, and maybe even a few times off screen. The stuff about Batman being the only guy to dodge Omegas is BS in many senses.

That doesn't look like an omega beam. But, i will give you that. Yeah! Darkseid does talk big. Even, after he was beaten he calls superman the loser. Darkseid died and returned. Clark was right. Bruce was just being an idiot. They should have never interfered like Clark wanted..

[marhawkman]

If it's not an Omega Beam what is it though? Whatever it hit was mere inches from Superman looks like. the most legit way of avoiding Omega beams is to force them to hit something else. But this was the floor, and it was Superman that moved.

[manwhohaseverything]

Maybe he has a standard beam power. I don't know, Beats me. His omega beam effects have his eyes burn like fire and beam itself is usually red. Clark also used ground/rocks to block straight beams from darkseid in the second fight on apocalypse .

[Agent Z]

How is Superman(fully unleashed ) punching darkseid across the city out of the realm of possibility for superman?

I never said it was. My point was that Superman is not being hampered by realism and that he is allowed to be as powerful as the script calls for.