Is Hank Pym the Martian Manhunter of the Avengers?

[Michael Watkins]

And that's the sweet irony of Ultron. If he was the machine he claimed to be, he wouldn't be plagued by this anger and hatred and contempt he feels for humanity, and for the human elements of his own 'programming' (the parts that came from Hank Pym's engrams).

If he could somehow purge himself and 'rewrite that code,' to remove all the elements that carried over from Hank, he'd be a completely different 'person,' with all of his previous megalomaniacal and genocidal traits rendered moot. Luckily, he'd have no feelings one way or the other about his previous aberrant behavior, because if he could have feelings about it, Ultron-sans-Pym would probably be quite embarrassed about how irrationally and emotionally he behaved...

Ultron is pretty much Pym's genius (and mental instability...) without Pym's humanity and heart to keep it in check.

any artificial intelligence would eventually come to the logical conclusion that humanity needs to be destroyed or co-opted (which was the Descendants mode of attack). humans are pretty much the worst.

[Michael Watkins]

Yep. That is why I never got the whole 'Pym should be a evil villain' thing that some folks seemed to want. Pym foes like Ultron and Doctor Nemesis (Micheal Stockton) are versions of evil Pym that already exist. An evil Pym would be redundant. Plus Pym particle villains like Darren Cross (Yellowjacket), Black Ant and Atlas (before he reformed) are around.

I don't think Pym should be a villain. but they had already told every possible Ultron story. at some point, the question becomes "why hasn't Pym cleaned up his mistake?" if he could create Ultron, why can't he destroy Ultron? if he can't destroy Ultron, why hasn't Ultron destroyed him? merging the two got us past the logic gap. from there they do a number of things. personally, I think they should just bring Pym back as the next step in artificial intelligence; what the Descendants wanted to be. there he could just continue to be a good-aligned mad scientist. it's not too different from what has happened to Tony Stark. they'd both be post-human.

p.s. nobody cares about Doctor Nemesis or Darren Cross - Black Ant's still around because Spencer likes him (and god bless him)

[Michael Watkins]

Considering Duggan was the one who had prominently written Pymtron prior to that and it seemed pretty clear that it was the bolded...well, so much for that .

he seemed to believe himself to be Pym in that Secret Empire story. he took it personally when Steve called him 'Ultron.' and he reacted as expected when Stark brought up the wife-beating. why would Ultron react to any of that?

[Frontier]

he seemed to believe himself to be Pym in that Secret Empire story. he took it personally when Steve called him 'Ultron.' and he reacted as expected when Stark brought up the wife-beating. why would Ultron react to any of that?

Hence the inconsistency .

[pageturner]

Hank is more like Ray Palmer.

Size changing
messy marriage
Big Brain but overshadowed by others.
Success in team books but not so much solo
Has handed mantle over to others.

[Agent Z]

I don't think Pym should be a villain. but they had already told every possible Ultron story. at some point, the question becomes "why hasn't Pym cleaned up his mistake?" if he could create Ultron, why can't he destroy Ultron? if he can't destroy Ultron, why hasn't Ultron destroyed him? merging the two got us past the logic gap. from there they do a number of things. personally, I think they should just bring Pym back as the next step in artificial intelligence; what the Descendants wanted to be. there he could just continue to be a good-aligned mad scientist. it's not too different from what has happened to Tony Stark. they'd both be post-human.

p.s. nobody cares about Doctor Nemesis or Darren Cross - Black Ant's still around because Spencer likes him (and god bless him)

If Pym destroyed Ultron another writer would just bring him back. It isn't a lack of trying on Pym's part it's just the annoying status quo of the Marvel universe.

[XPac]

If Pym destroyed Ultron another writer would just bring him back. It isn't a lack of trying on Pym's part it's just the annoying status quo of the Marvel universe.

On the plus side, that same annoying status quo will likely bring Pym back to life too. So it has it's upsides too.

[chamber-music]

Ultron is still alive because his a major comic villain and writers want to keep using him just like they want to keep using many other popular villains.

Ultron has also been made to be very hard to kill. Ultron's body is made of adamantium and he can beam his memory/personality into other computer systems or duplicate robotic bodies. He can also self repair and has hive-mind technology, allowing him to control hundreds of other Ultron bodies simultaneously.

Ultron isn't alive due to the lack of trying by Pym, the Avengers and various other heroes. Writers have made Ultron increasingly difficult to destroy and near immortal.

[Mary Jay]

If Pym destroyed Ultron another writer would just bring him back. It isn't a lack of trying on Pym's part it's just the annoying status quo of the Marvel universe.

Pym did destroy Ultron, many times, like in Ultron Unlimited and Age of Ultron. But as you said, the writers want to bring it back despite this.

On the plus side, that same annoying status quo will likely bring Pym back to life too. So it has it's upsides too.

I hope you're right

Ultron is still alive because his a major comic villain and writers want to keep using him just like they want to keep using many other popular villains.

Ultron has also been made to be very hard to kill. Ultron's body is made of adamantium and he can beam his memory/personality into other computer systems or duplicate robotic bodies. He can also self repair and has hive-mind technology, allowing him to control hundreds of other Ultron bodies simultaneously.

Ultron isn't alive due to the lack of trying by Pym, the Avengers and various other heroes. Writers have made Ultron increasingly difficult to destroy and near immortal.

Not to mention they keep having Ultron versions pop up after one is destroyed.

I do think Ultron makes an interesting villain, and as a reader I wouldn't want it to be destroyed for ever as it makes for good stories. I think it's unfair though to pin its continued existence solely on Pym or assume he never tried or managed to destroy it.

[Michael Watkins]

If Pym destroyed Ultron another writer would just bring him back. It isn't a lack of trying on Pym's part it's just the annoying status quo of the Marvel universe.

right. and that's why it was Pym who died. it was inevitable because of the relationship between Frankenstein and his monster.

[Michael Watkins]

Ultron isn't alive due to the lack of trying by Pym, the Avengers and various other heroes. Writers have made Ultron increasingly difficult to destroy and near immortal.

of course "he" is. look at how much time has gone inbetween their altercations. and it's never Pym hunting Ultron. Ultron is the proactive one in those instances. and Pym, self proclaimed scientist supreme, always comes up with some way to end Ultron. he always introduces a McGuffin device that is intended to put Ultron down. at some point, Pym (being a supergenius) would have to realize that what he's doing isn't working. why wasn't his entire focus on destroying his mass murdering creation? forget about being an Avenger. being heralded as a hero should sort of be a second priority to cleaning up the original mistake. here's an idea, borrow the Ultimate Nullifier from Reed Richards.

[theoneandonly]

when Galactus also cannot stop Ultron from returning after he has snuffed him out what can Hank do?

[Michael Watkins]

when Galactus also cannot stop Ultron from returning after he has snuffed him out what can Hank do?

go back in time and kill himself?

[Agent Z]

go back in time and kill himself?

Why am I not surprised this would be a solution you'd offer?

[XPac]

Why am I not surprised this would be a solution you'd offer?

Hey, it worked for Wolverine. Sort of.