Why isn't Bendis' run doing better, both critically and commercially?

[Rakzo]

I mean, were people really expecting any other kind of reaction?

To be honest, I was expecting it at the very least to do waaaaay better financially based on name alone but critically is going pretty much as well as I predicted. Bendis has been a hit and miss writer for most of his career and his hits and misses in this line are the Action Comics and Superman titles respectively, apparently the flaws in the latter were too much for people to take this time and (I'm sorry but I'm going full douche here), just as I initially said, the direction for Jon played an important role in all of this since most of the Superman fanbase hated what happened to him, add the fact that Rogol Zaar has been a really uninspired antagonist and the decompressed nature of Bendis' work and you simply get one of the worst titles currently.

Now that I think about it, is not that hard to believe that Bendis is doing worse than Tomasi commercially. Tomasi's Superman run had its ups and downs but Tomasi at his best was around Bendis at his best (which is Action Comics) while Tomasi at his worst was not near as Bendis at his worst (which is Superman). This era is just too erratic to be that invested in it.

It's funny, Geoff Johns is currently doing more relevant and impressive stuff with Superman in Doomsday Clock than Bendis is currently doing (and most likely will ever do) and both reviews and sales reflect that. Talent wins at the end I guess.

[Sacred Knight]

It's funny, Geoff Johns is currently doing more relevant and impressive stuff with Superman in Doomsday Clock than Bendis is currently doing (and most likely will ever do) and both reviews and sales reflect that. Talent wins at the end I guess.

Disagree heavily with this one. He's not saying anything with Superman that he hasn't alluded to before in the past. This isn't new and innovative, and moreover and most importantly, neither he nor DC ever actually writes him as that on the reg when the chips are down. In the actual long-term products, he's still far from a priority at DC. They don't back this up in the slightest, so who really cares if in one event every ten years its just thrown out there that he's the center of everything when tangibly the writer in question, and the company as a whole, don't know what to do with him otherwise?

Johns is a bigger, more consistent name than Bendis now. Of course his stuff is going to sell more. It doesn't mean he writes Superman better. Indeed, Doomsday Clark has been virtually absent of Superman as an actual character. He's just a symbol. Which again is all well and good but without the characterization, is not impressive to me. Don't get me wrong, Doomsday Clock is doing well and outside of its laughable schedule justifiably. He's weaving an interesting tale that the readers are into. But Superman himself is not the reason in the slightest; indeed he is a complete non-entity as an actual three-dimensional character, which is par for course on what Johns can do with him these days.

[_Feely_]

FWIW I was just never interested in the set-up.

Not into married Supes. Lois's relationship turn near the beginning and the Red Cloud stuff all seemed interesting but I was just never hooked.

His Superman was pretty decent, i thought. This model isn't my bag, but i never hated it. I liked some of the interactions that were going on with the Firewoman (Chief?). But the stuff had no tension so I never really bit.

meh.

[The World]

The thing I've believed for years is that if you want Superman to make a splash and show people that he and his themes are still relevant, just go back to the start. 1940 Superman dealt with corrupt politicians, greedy businessmen, low-life wife beaters, etc. Sound familiar? These are the same things we're dealing with today.

The problem, I believe, is the corporate management. WB wants a Superman who is so totally inoffensive he no longer actually says anything. You want the IP to matter and you want people to realize that Superman still matters and is still the best of the best? Hes gotta say something again. Eighty years ago, S&S had Superman fight the problems they saw in their own world, in their own neighborhood. And it turned the character into a global icon.

If WB wants Superman to be a real contender in the world, all they have to do is let him engage with it again. Yes, it'll piss some people off. Who cares? It'll also inspire others.

Dont get me wrong, Im not interested in seeing Clark become a mouthpiece for a political agenda. And it doesn't have to be hammered home with a sledgehammer. Don't go overboard with it. But punching aliens in the face isn't going to make Superman relevant again. Superman going after the problems we actually have? That'll start a conversation. And its not as difficult to write as a lot of people think, either.

The thing that gets me is that if there's two words I often hear A LOT in common conversation these days its immigration and the news media. Freedom of the press is central to American structure and has been a big part of popular discussion since at least Watergate and immigration at least since Hart-Celler. DC has basically pulled voodoo magic for him to be considered culturally irrelevant.

In general I think the Golden Age with S&S in particular need to become required reading before being allowed to touch the character.

[manwhohaseverything]

The thing that gets me is that if there's two words I often hear A LOT in common conversation these days its immigration and the news media. Freedom of the press is central to American structure and has been a big part of popular discussion since at least Watergate and immigration at least since Hart-Celler. DC has basically pulled voodoo magic for him to be considered culturally irrelevant.

In general I think the Golden Age with S&S in particular need to become required reading before being allowed to touch the character.

How is good old fashion vigilantism of earlier superman comics connected to 'freedom of the press'?

[The World]

How is good old fashion vigilantism of earlier superman comics connected to 'freedom of the press'?

Superman in the Golden Age was a reporter that's why all the Superman stories after the Golden Age have him as a reporter aside from the so called Bronze Age where he was a news anchor.

[jason white reborn]

Bendis's biggest defenders come from new 52 fans who want Jon put in limbo...keep that in mind.

Bendis is the worst superman writer in recent years and his sales and reviews reflect that

[Sacred Knight]

Bendis's biggest defenders come from new 52 fans who want Jon put in limbo...keep that in mind.

Debate the points if you will but this is just plain lazy. It offers absolutely no thought, insight, or response to genuine points raised. Keep that in mind too.

[Robanker]

Bendis's biggest defenders come from new 52 fans who want Jon put in limbo...keep that in mind.

Bendis is the worst superman writer in recent years and his sales and reviews reflect that

I don't know, man. I pretty much hated the New 52 Superman outside Morrison, but I'm enjoying Bendis. Love Jon, the Super marriage and I'm a big fan of Rebirth overall.

Action Comics under Bendis has been a blast.

You don't like it and that's okay.

[Yoda]

I don't know, man. I pretty much hated the New 52 Superman outside Morrison, but I'm enjoying Bendis. Love Jon, the Super marriage and I'm a big fan of Rebirth overall.

Action Comics under Bendis has been a blast.

You don't like it and that's okay.

Same for me. Wasn't reading Superman regularly in the New 52, jumped back in with the Lois & Clark post-Convergence series and really liked Rebirth & Super Sons. I'm not without criticisms of Bendis' run, but I've been liking it and have even come around to really like Bendis' take on Lois.

[Ascended]

I think a film adapting Morrison's early New 52 Superman incarnation would be the best way to do that. That version may have fizzled out quickly in the comics thanks to poor planning and mismanagement, but the core of that idea is potent as all hell because it returns the character to his anti-establishment roots.

And it'd be relatively cheap to make, which means the studio makes more profit.

I think you could easily take the first four issues of Morrison's Action and turn it into a film. You've got the social crusader fighting against The Man, the internal struggle as Clark realizes his methods aren't achieving his goals, and the whole thing ends with a giant alien monster fight.

It's different enough from classic Superman that audiences might see it as an "Elseworlds" more than a "proper" adaptation and roll with the changes more than if this were presented as "the" Superman, and it'll remind people of who Clark really is when you strip the corporate BS away.

How much fundamental change do you think is necessary to attract these new fans that would sustain it a Batman level sales? Because I'm not talking about a year or so of boosted sales off of a relaunch or event, etc. Batman level popularity sustains sales of the book across those things and through a long run.

If you want long-term high sales, there's no easy solution. Quality creative teams over the course of years, investment from the company, important roles in major Events, and some quality larger media stuff would all be required. And it'll take at least a decade of serious effort to wipe the taste of the last few decades of mismanagement out of everyone's mouths.

The thing that gets me is that if there's two words I often hear A LOT in common conversation these days its immigration and the news media. Freedom of the press is central to American structure and has been a big part of popular discussion since at least Watergate and immigration at least since Hart-Celler. DC has basically pulled voodoo magic for him to be considered culturally irrelevant.

In general I think the Golden Age with S&S in particular need to become required reading before being allowed to touch the character.

Agreed. Clark is perfectly positioned for some culturally relevant narratives. And it seems at least a few writers have been interested in that. Bendis is exploring the themes of fake news a lot in his run, and Lobdell tried to tackle similar issues in his time, though DC cut the feet out from under him there.

How is good old fashion vigilantism of earlier superman comics connected to 'freedom of the press'?

I dont recall off the top of my head Clark ever dealing with that issue back in the 40's (was that even a concern in the 40's?), but I think the point that was being made is the early comics dealt with real, topical issues that impacted the readers. And in today's world, journalistic integrity and freedom of the press are very big concerns. Seems obvious that a hero who is an actual journalist would have something to say on the matter.

[JAK]

I don't know, man. I pretty much hated the New 52 Superman outside Morrison, but I'm enjoying Bendis. Love Jon, the Super marriage and I'm a big fan of Rebirth overall.

Action Comics under Bendis has been a blast.

Same, definitely. As I'm sure I've made clear on this forum by now, lol

And it'd be relatively cheap to make, which means the studio makes more profit.

I think you could easily take the first four issues of Morrison's Action and turn it into a film. You've got the social crusader fighting against The Man, the internal struggle as Clark realizes his methods aren't achieving his goals, and the whole thing ends with a giant alien monster fight.

It's different enough from classic Superman that audiences might see it as an "Elseworlds" more than a "proper" adaptation and roll with the changes more than if this were presented as "the" Superman, and it'll remind people of who Clark really is when you strip the corporate BS away.

Yes to all of this - I'd even call the movie "Action Comics" - shame we missed the 80th, that would have been perfect.

If you want long-term high sales, there's no easy solution. Quality creative teams over the course of years, investment from the company, important roles in major Events, and some quality larger media stuff would all be required. And it'll take at least a decade of serious effort to wipe the taste of the last few decades of mismanagement out of everyone's mouths.

I think consistency is important, too. Say, if Jurgens/Tomasi or some group (maybe with a stronger vision) would be there for a good chunk of time and advertise them consistently, that'd be good. Doing the hard work of slow growth won't be as flashy as cheap sales with fresh #1s, but it'll be better in the long run, imo.

Agreed. Clark is perfectly positioned for some culturally relevant narratives. And it seems at least a few writers have been interested in that. Bendis is exploring the themes of fake news a lot in his run, and Lobdell tried to tackle similar issues in his time, though DC cut the feet out from under him there.

I dont recall off the top of my head Clark ever dealing with that issue back in the 40's (was that even a concern in the 40's?), but I think the point that was being made is the early comics dealt with real, topical issues that impacted the readers. And in today's world, journalistic integrity and freedom of the press are very big concerns. Seems obvious that a hero who is an actual journalist would have something to say on the matter.

Yeah - it's crazy how much of the same stuff has come full-circle, front-and-center again. There's a real opportunity, if they can have the courage to seize it.

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman in the Golden Age was a reporter that's why all the Superman stories after the Golden Age have him as a reporter aside from the so called Bronze Age where he was a news anchor.

As far as i remember, Clark Being a reporter never brought up 'freedom of the press' as a theme or as a topic in his early days. But, i get what you want to say.

[manwhohaseverything]

Same, definitely. As I'm sure I've made clear on this forum by now, lol
Yes to all of this - I'd even call the movie "Action Comics" - shame we missed the 80th, that would have been perfect
I think consistency is important, too. Say, if Jurgens/Tomasi or some group (maybe with a stronger vision) would be there for a good chunk of time and advertise them consistently, that'd be good. Doing the hard work of slow growth won't be as flashy as cheap sales with fresh #1s, but it'll be better in the long run, imo
Yeah - it's crazy how much of the same stuff has come full-circle, front-and-center again. There's a real opportunity, if they can have the courage to seize it.

But, the problem Bendis's run isn't Action Comics, it is superman series. Rogol zarr and aged up jon are boring beyond belief

[kurenai24]

What is critical success exactly, is it nominations of awards or is it reviews given mostly by fan created sites...

And I emphasize fan created sites b/c their reviews are usually more so on the basis of what they like and what they wanted to see and if a writer met their expectations and wants vs what is there, what the story is, and how it's progressed, with their thoughts and opinion at the end wrapping up a review.

And then let's not forget that when it comes to people criticizing things bias-ness and favoritism will always play a part. I've said this many times you could have Bendis write something and put someone else's name on it and it will be liked, you could purposely write a shitty comic and make people guess who wrote it and people will say Bendis b/c that's who they do not like.

So with anything critical it looks good on paper but it shouldn't matter, sales should (amongst other things) which brings me to the next part of the title.

Bendis does not sell like he used that's to be expected eventually everyone that's popular in any field will start to lose shine and that's on top of the fact that Bendis has never left a project or a comic off a high note or took a significant enough break to be missed, he's been constantly writing as far as I know, and has had his hand in everything enough times to have his very own hatedom (hate fandom), but his numbers on the Superman books have been consistent I believe and that's a good thing

If comics and comic artists were marketed differently and if comics were available in other areas, commercial success wouldn't be a problem for Bendis but alas.

But, the problem Bendis's run isn't Action Comics, it is superman series. Rogol zarr and aged up jon are boring beyond belief

To you b/c you don't like it.

Statements like this is a good example of the difference between actual criticism of a story vs personal dislike b/c it doesn't do what you want.

Admittedly I don't care for Rogol Zarr either but that's for another post.