The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[Killerbee911]

If you want a Jean/Bishop thread, then make one.

I am pretty sure there is kinda of one already

[phoenixzero23]

Nope, Wolverine loves Jean. He has done so for decades, trying to say that he doesn't makes no sense but he is a huge and popular charactar thatdoesn't depend on romantic relationships to be relevant and wolverine himself wants Jean's happines over his own. He is there and he loves her but withou his love being a burden to Jean.
Like seriously, saying that he doesn't love her makes no sense. There have been movies, tv shows and comics for years saying that he does and jean too loves him in a way

[Silver Fang]

It depends on how some fans see love and its depiction.

As part of the Buffy fandom, I hear all the time about Spike's powerful love for Buffy that was so strong, he didn't need a soul to feel it, and how Angel is downplayed because he doesn't love Buffy with no so. Regarding Spike, if emotionally abusing someone by constantly telling them how disgusting they are & that they don't belong with their loved ones, then trying to rape them is love, people's standards are very low. lol

Then in the X-Fandom, I have heard people trying to make Creed x Birdy out to be some kind of love. I heavily disagree with that too. lol These two didn't give a crap about each other.

Same for Wolverine. Some see his feelings as stalker behavior. That he's obsessed with her, or intrigued by her because she was the ultimate lady whom he never did eventually get. And the only time he came close is when she was rebounding from a failing marriage. Thankfully unlike Spike, Logan wasn't sprung enough to accept that. So some don't take that much more seriously than some fans take Spuffy.

[phoenixzero23]

Yes, i understand that he looks like a stalker sometimes but that is because Marvel doesn't make Jean recipocrate much ( she does the thing is that on all of their story she was practically married to cyclops) if she did at the time, she would have looked bad.
She has even sdmited a few times to have feelings for wolverine even in front of cyclops.

[Omega Alpha]

I think the triangle was the worst thing to happen to all three characters- Scott, Logan and Jean. It ended up putting their fans against each other, defining their characters in outside media, and made everyone look bad- Logan as the stalker, Jean as the tease and Scott as the guy cockblocking the cool guy of the X-men.

And the worst part is that it started because Claremont was being a petty, vindictive dick that was using Cyclops as a stand-in for Jim Shooter, and that even included the stupid losing to depowered Storm non-sense (which fortunately was later retconned to mind-control).

Part of the reason I want him with Emma is so Scott can stay out of this triangle mess.

[phoenixzero23]

Well, Scott technically is the definitive winner of the triangle. I wasn't trying to portrait him or his relationship with jean (because i'm a gig fan)
I was just trying to explain my point of view to the people saying that wolvie didn't love jean

[Silver Fang]

He's still in it with Emma. Just now the triangle includes Jean and fans being against each other

Emma = Vindictive, Home-wrecking Slut who is responsible for usurping & ruining Jean
Scott = Cheating manwhore husband
Jean = Schoolgirl Crush who stopped caring about the man she claimed to love
etc.

Either way Scott goes, there's a triangle where characters look bad, or will be made to seem horrible depending on fans preference. Some have called Emma the obsessive stalker when it comes to Scott. In addition to the Psycho ex-girlfriend angle.

[The tall man]

Nope, Wolverine loves Jean. He has done so for decades, trying to say that he doesn't makes no sense but he is a huge and popular charactar thatdoesn't depend on romantic relationships to be relevant and wolverine himself wants Jean's happines over his own. He is there and he loves her but withou his love being a burden to Jean.
Like seriously, saying that he doesn't love her makes no sense. There have been movies, tv shows and comics for years saying that he does and jean too loves him in a way

Of course he loves Jean but no longer in an obsessive way. And as I've said Mariko is also alive now and Logan loved her also, I think even more so than Jean; her death broke him. I continue to believe that between the two Logan would choose Mariko over Jean. Just as one could say that Scott is the love of Jean's life, one can say Mariko is the love of Logan's life.

[phoenixzero23]

I think the stalkerish behaviors are an unexpected product of Marvel trying to please the fans of the relationships but at the same time they hate stable couples and dont let characters be happy. That will happen to any future relationships too the moment they break up

[Silver Fang]

I think it's just some writers who can't write ships without making someone look questionable.

X-Factor had Darwin claiming to love Monet when he hardly spent any time with her, and fell for her because he first saw her nude on a magazine cover. To me, he lusted for her & liked the idea of her, but I couldn't take his feelings seriously or support that ship. For other reasons too, but more shallow ones. lol

Then also with Scemma, there's the questionable nature of how it started. With Emma taking advantage of a depressed many under the guise of being a therapist just to screw over his wife. Some will never look at the relationship favorably for that alone. Regardless of it becoming more genuine later.

[Omega Alpha]

He's still in it with Emma. Just now the triangle includes Jean and fans being against each other.

Well, part of the point of the two most popular runs of the 21st century, Morrison and Whedon (also of Endsong) was Scott getting over Jean and falling in love with Emma, the problem is writers in lesser runs with that couldn't accept it and wanted all the characters back to how they were when they were growing up- Scott the boyscout pining over Jean, Emma as the evil bitch from the HFC, etc.

[Zelena]

Well, part of the point of the two most popular runs of the 21st century, Morrison and Whedon (also of Endsong) was Scott getting over Jean and falling in love with Emma, the problem is writers in lesser runs with that couldn't accept it and wanted all the characters back to how they were when they were growing up- Scott the boyscout pining over Jean, Emma as the evil bitch from the HFC, etc.

So Scott looks like a weather vane?

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well all that Angel cared about without his soul, in regards to Buffy, was hurting and killing her, there was no love there. With Spike he did seem to have some affection for Buffy and Dawn and their mother that wasn't weird or creepy, yes the attempted rape part was wrong but in a lot of ways he was closer to Buffy than imho Angel ever could be...

Logan is still in love with Jean, as for Mariko, she's hardly the woman that he almost married and doesn't she not love him anymore anyway...

[Silver Fang]

Well all that Angel cared about without his soul, in regards to Buffy, was hurting and killing her, there was no love there. With Spike he did seem to have some affection for Buffy and Dawn and their mother that wasn't weird or creepy, yes the attempted rape part was wrong but in a lot of ways he was closer to Buffy than imho Angel ever could be...

In short, both soulless vamps were obsessed with her. Angelus was twisted & did horrible things as a show of "affection" as we hear on Valentine's day. He also admits to loving her when he says that loving her is the key to destroying her. Then it being mentioned he strikes out at her so much because she makes him feel the most human, which he hated. Not to mention Angelus was never chipped. Spike was, and that was the only thing that gave him opening to hang around with the Scoobies -because he was a non-threat and it's not like he fit with other vamps anymore in that state. And Spike so-called "affection" for Dawn ended as soon as Buffy opened her legs for him. lol After they started shagging, Spike spent no time with Dawn whatsoever & didn't seem to be missing it. They only interacted when Dawn went to see him after he shagged Anya.

All Spike cared for was hurting Buffy so he could drag her into darkness with him. Similar to Angelus' desire to overtake her in some way. Both vamps seemed to be trying for Drusilla 2.0 with Buffy.

I don't consider Spike any better than Angelus. In fact, if he's so different from regular vamps & can feel human emotion without a soul, he's an even bigger piece of crap because he still did all the disgusting things he did. despite having more agency than other vamps. Supposedly.

Sorry but Spuffy was a mess, and I never have nor will give it any credit. When it wasn't a mess it was Bangel light, and in which case, they should've just stuck with Angel.

[FUBAR007]

Well all that Angel cared about without his soul, in regards to Buffy, was hurting and killing her, there was no love there. With Spike he did seem to have some affection for Buffy and Dawn and their mother that wasn't weird or creepy, yes the attempted rape part was wrong but in a lot of ways he was closer to Buffy than imho Angel ever could be...

The difference between Angel and Spike is that Spike didn't change all that much once he got his soul back. Whereas Angel and Angelus are for all intents and purposes two different, diametrically opposite people.

As for how all this maps to The Rectangle:

Scott = Buffy*
Jean = Angel
Emma = Spike
Logan = Darla

*That Whedon hasn't done a Buffy/X-Men crossover where Buffy & the gang visit her cousin Scott in New York and end up in a globe-trotting adventure with the X-Men fighting Dracula and his vampire minions is a gaping hole in American pop culture. This would, of course, necessarily include a scene with Buffy and Scott comparing notes on their absurd, batshit love lives while teamed up in the field.