this is not the character i signed up for

[Lightning Rider]

I can probably go to all of the post-return Barry Allen Flash stories and 90% of them have nothing to do with whether or not his parents are alive (other than maybe some references to his relationship with his captain). The notion that that detail affects every story is what is find odd.

I always go back to the people who got upset when Dick Grayson was no longer a former leader of the Titans, despite the fact that very few solo Nightwing stories actually depended on that. People are reading things in that are not really there.

I can understand that, many times you can not be told of a retcon of that nature and the story doesn't change. But with the Flash, it's not the case. You'll run into the dead mom/jailed dad thing inevitably whenever his main villain, the Reverse Flash, appears. And when that's not happening, unrecognizable walking stereotype "Wally West" appears. Or "Bar-Torr". Or lame versions of the Rogues. The things people had been invested in, people who can't just "go with the flow" no matter which way it goes.

[Starchild]

Because he is invested in the story at hand. Reading about a super-hero beating up bad guys can be fun without having to get all deep into it.

And it's always been story over character with me. It's one of the reasons why I was able to enjoy Cullen Bunn's Lobo. Was he a foul-mouthed, cigar smoking, walking 90's cliche? No and I didn't need him to be. I just liked what Bunn did with him.

[Lightning Rider]

I remember being taught, and I ultimately agreed, that character-driven stories are the best. I think that resonates with most people. It's why Game of Thrones is so popular, it's a big part of why Watchmen is such a classic, it's why the original Star Wars films are largely preferred over the prequels despite both being heavy on plot devices and universe-building. The characters feel like real people with distinct personalities.

[andersonh1]

For me, most DC characters are more than just a name, a powerset and a costume. They're also composed of stories, of history and of relationships. Remove any of those components, and they're not the same. One of the reasons I continue to read Green Lantern is because most of those pre-Flashpoint relationships between the various Lanterns are still there, in a form I recognize. With most other books, that's just not the case at all.

What DC did after Flashpoint was keep the name, powerset and costumes (more or less), but jettison the history and relationships, and still expect people to retain the same emotional investment they had before. Or else they just expected that people would keep reading and form new attachments, or the hypothetical new readers wouldn't care about the history and relationships, but would be happy to get in on the ground floor.

But it doesn't work. It took a few years, but I think that's becoming apparent now. Because all we have left are generic superhero stories as DC tries to repackage old concepts, or forge a new shared universe. Someone name the great new characters that have come out of the last four and a half years of DC Comics storytelling, or the standout storylines. Opinions will vary, but there's not much that's innovative that's come out of the freedom that was supposed to come from unshackling characters from decades of continuity.

[Lightning Rider]

For me, most DC characters are more than just a name, a powerset and a costume. They're also composed of stories, of history and of relationships. Remove any of those components, and they're not the same. One of the reasons I continue to read Green Lantern is because most of those pre-Flashpoint relationships between the various Lanterns are still there, in a form I recognize. With most other books, that's just not the case at all.

What DC did after Flashpoint was keep the name, powerset and costumes (more or less), but jettison the history and relationships, and still expect people to retain the same emotional investment they had before. Or else they just expected that people would keep reading and form new attachments, or the hypothetical new readers wouldn't care about the history and relationships, but would be happy to get in on the ground floor.

But it doesn't work. It took a few years, but I think that's becoming apparent now. Because all we have left are generic superhero stories as DC tries to repackage old concepts, or forge a new shared universe. Someone name the great new characters that have come out of the last four and a half years of DC Comics storytelling, or the standout storylines. Opinions will vary, but there's not much that's innovative that's come out of the freedom that was supposed to come from unshackling characters from decades of continuity.

Very well said.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I can probably go to all of the post-return Barry Allen Flash stories and 90% of them have nothing to do with whether or not his parents are alive (other than maybe some references to his relationship with his captain). The notion that that detail affects every story is what is find odd.

I always go back to the people who got upset when Dick Grayson was no longer a former leader of the Titans, despite the fact that very few solo Nightwing stories actually depended on that. People are reading things in that are not really there.

People connect to characters differently, tough.

If I like the Flash to be a legacy character, Barry Allen is not gonna cut it. I may recognize how good any given story is, but I won't enjoiy as much. If I want the Flash, in general, to be an upbeat character not motivated by tragedy, post-Rebirth ain't gonna cut it either - and hell, in this particular case, about half the stories or more touch on the subject.

If Roy Harper visits Wayne Mansion and doesn't talk to Dick Grayson at all, like they barely know each other, it makes loose interest in both.

I like the bigger universe, the relationships, the stories and the concepts; take that away, or simplify it too much, and for me personally, it doesn't have the same appeal; not even close.

And there's nothing wrong with it.

[ChaoticScholar]

Immortal Demon Joker.

[byrd156]

Because he is invested in the story at hand. Reading about a super-hero beating up bad guys can be fun without having to get all deep into it.

A story is only as good as it's characters. If the reader doesn't care about the characters but still likes the story, how does that make sense? Why read it in the first place if you don't care?

I'm not saying the story has to dive into a well of emotions and themes (though I prefer when stories do) but there has to be a reason you picked that hero's story other than hearing good things about it.

[The Whovian]

Wally West
The JSA
Tim Drake
Kon-El
Shiva
Richard Dragon

[Buried Alien]

If I like the Flash to be a legacy character, Barry Allen is not gonna cut it. I may recognize how good any given story is, but I won't enjoy as much.

I was pretty much done with the "legacy character" thing by the end of Wally's first run in 2006; I just wanted to get back to "Whirlwind Adventures of the Fastest Man Alive."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[BohemiaDrinker]

I was pretty much done with the "legacy character" thing by the end of Wally's first run in 2006; I just wanted to get back to "Whirlwind Adventures of the Fastest Man Alive."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

And there's nothing wrong with that either.

And even if we got back to "Whirlwind Adventures of the Fastest Man Alive." - which happened a lot during Wally's tenure - you probably wouldn't enjoy as much as well because I know you have a certain attachment to Barry; whatever your reasons and preferences are.

There's also nothing wrong with that.

It's a given that a publisher - Marvel, DC or any other - won't ever be able to please everybody 100%. There MUST be a sweet spot, somewhere, though.

[GlennSimpson]

People connect to characters differently, tough.

If I like the Flash to be a legacy character, Barry Allen is not gonna cut it. I may recognize how good any given story is, but I won't enjoiy as much. If I want the Flash, in general, to be an upbeat character not motivated by tragedy, post-Rebirth ain't gonna cut it either - and hell, in this particular case, about half the stories or more touch on the subject.

If Roy Harper visits Wayne Mansion and doesn't talk to Dick Grayson at all, like they barely know each other, it makes loose interest in both.

I like the bigger universe, the relationships, the stories and the concepts; take that away, or simplify it too much, and for me personally, it doesn't have the same appeal; not even close.

And there's nothing wrong with it.

Absolutely not. I'm mainly responding to comments that someone like me is somehow less of a fan or something because we aren't sweating those details.

[Mister BoMan]

Tim Drake, The Teen Titans, Earth 2 JSA, Wally West very disappointed in the new 52 versions.

[FlashingSabre]

Bleh, this site is freaking out on me.

[stephens2177]

It saddens me, too. Have we even seen Damage in New52?

Nope,and he would be a good addition in this new universe.


Kon
Bart
Wally
Grant
Mgann
And many more,bring em back,and the right way