Johns' Shazam vs. Morrison"s Captain Marvel

[Sirzechs]

Because Captain Marvel is Billy with the wisdom of Solomon, so if he turns into Captain Marvel he'll better understand what's going on.

It has nothing to do with that, he said before he simply referred to his past version as Billy then further into the conversation he said "have to warn Captain Marvel".

[Dataweaver]

Note that I said that Thunderworld hinted that Billy and Captain Marvel are separate entities; I did not say that that it clearly and indisputably said that they were. If you wish to interpret the dialog as “secret identity stuff”, go ahead — but that’s your interpretation.

It’s also a rather shaky interpretation IMHO, as I got the distinct impression that the connection between Billy and Captain Marvel is common knowledge on Thunderworld: the kid was live-blogging when he said “Shazam!”

[Sirzechs]

This is what i'm referring to notice he called Billy by name, then Cap by name in the same sentence, then later while battling Black Sivana, Captain Marvel said that's what Billy meant by Sun and Clocks even though he and Sivana was the only ones there.

[andersonh1]

They definitely talk about each other as though they are separate individuals all through the issue.

[Lexrules]

It's a debate between wholesomeness vs edginess. Modern kids tend to think wholesomeness is boring, and that being edgy means one is somehow more adult. They'll find the latter more interesting.

And really? Billy did that? *resigned sigh*

More reason why kids should be seen and not heard :P

BTW, I really need to pick up Thunderworld. It's sounds amazing.

[Darth Kal-el]

More reason why kids should be seen and not heard :P

BTW, I really need to pick up Thunderworld. It's sounds amazing.

Think most advertisers and marketing disagree. I know being in marketing. We tend to market to the younger generation. DC marketing probably does the same

[colonyofcells]

Planet is getting more and more overpopulated every day so it makes sense for dc to go after the new younger customers. The pre flashpoint captain marvel is great for historians.

[Thor-Ul]

This is what i'm referring to notice he called Billy by name, then Cap by name in the same sentence, then later while battling Black Sivana, Captain Marvel said that's what Billy meant by Sun and Clocks even though he and Sivana was the only ones there.

I thought than Billy was protecting his secret identity because, you now, he remember than in that moment he was broadcasting live.

[dswynne]

I thought than Billy was protecting his secret identity because, you now, he remember than in that moment he was broadcasting live.

Late to the party, but I wouldn't mind seeing a SHAZAM and THUNDERWORLD series. It would be no different from having an Earth 1 and Earth 2 series that featured two different Superman(s). The trick would be making both unique and interesting from each other to warrant the two series. For example, SHAZAM would have Billy Batson and "Shazam" being one and the same, with Billy learning how to become his predecessor's successor via learning how to become a magic user while on adventures in the magical NuDCU. SHAZAM would be like the HARRY POTTER series in overall tone and scope, with Mary, Blond Freddy and the others being a part of the book's supporting cast. Meanwhile, with Billy and "Captain Marvel" being separate people, THUNDERWORLD would be more all-ages, and would serve as a direct successor to the old Fawcett books.

After that, I would that Mary Marvel (or Mary Shazam?) get a chance to have her own book (WHIZ COMICS perhaps?), have the different Billy Batson(s) meet different versions of Captain Marvel (including the 1970s live action version). and then have a big crossover where all the Marvel Family(s) would gather together to face off against a multidimensional threat poised by Doc Sivana, the Sivana Family, the Monster Society, the Black Adam Family, the Seven Sins and the Three Faces of Evil. Still, I doubt that DC would go that far, though it is nice that the original Captain Marvel will be seen in CONVERGENCE soon.

[KurtW95]

I thought than Billy was protecting his secret identity because, you now, he remember than in that moment he was broadcasting live.

That does make the most sense.

[Tenzel Kim]

From what I written above, you can kind of see that ...

... you hate Ordway's Captain Marvel as much as others hate Johns' Shazam and is just as prejudiced against it as others are of Johns' take. A lot of people see what they want to see based on their initial reactions. And if it doesn't fit what they want it is bad. Looking at my own opinion on the matter it all comes down to my own likes as well. I get what Johns is trying to do by making the character of Billy more realistic but personally I'm growing more and more tired of this realism.

What drew me to comics in the first place was the fact that this was a fairytale world were everything could happen. It didn't have to be realistic. I read comics to escape reality and not to read about it as well. As I grew older I grew to like more realistic takes as what I read as a kid became a bit too childish. As I've grown older yet again I find that comics have lost some of the charm and innocence that made me want to read them in the first place and I start longing for those out of this world stories were imagination is the limit.

Now, that is not to say I don't like realism in comics anymore, but simply that I think it has become too predominant in the superhero comics market. Escapism and utopian tales where the good guys are good and the bad guys bad, with no real grey in between is sometimes a good thing.

[thetrellan]

... you hate Ordway's Captain Marvel as much as others hate Johns' Shazam and is just as prejudiced against it as others are of Johns' take. A lot of people see what they want to see based on their initial reactions. And if it doesn't fit what they want it is bad. Looking at my own opinion on the matter it all comes down to my own likes as well. I get what Johns is trying to do by making the character of Billy more realistic but personally I'm growing more and more tired of this realism.

What drew me to comics in the first place was the fact that this was a fairytale world were everything could happen. It didn't have to be realistic. I read comics to escape reality and not to read about it as well. As I grew older I grew to like more realistic takes as what I read as a kid became a bit too childish. As I've grown older yet again I find that comics have lost some of the charm and innocence that made me want to read them in the first place and I start longing for those out of this world stories were imagination is the limit.

Now, that is not to say I don't like realism in comics anymore, but simply that I think it has become too predominant in the superhero comics market. Escapism and utopian tales where the good guys are good and the bad guys bad, with no real grey in between is sometimes a good thing.

It's not even necessarily realism that puts things on the bottom of my reading stack, but a sort of evolution that began with attempts at realism.

It's not realistic for someone like the Joker to just keep getting worse and worse because it means that at some point he should be cured or dead. Getting worse is a sign that the Joker himself sees his own madness on some level, and in that respect getting worse because he's struggling inside. To have him simply turn rabid forever isn't at all realistic.

Nor is it realistic for Magneto to waffle between good and bad the way he does. Yes, people can change, but at the core they remain who they've always been throughout and only the tools they use to deal with the world change. Only on soap operas does basic morality shift constantly so that you never know who the bad guy will be from month to month. Well, soap operas and the X-Men. Which is no longer on the bottom due to the fact that I dropped it decades ago.

[Paper Monkey]

Late to the party, but I wouldn't mind seeing a SHAZAM and THUNDERWORLD series. It would be no different from having an Earth 1 and Earth 2 series that featured two different Superman(s). The trick would be making both unique and interesting from each other to warrant the two series. For example, SHAZAM would have Billy Batson and "Shazam" being one and the same, with Billy learning how to become his predecessor's successor via learning how to become a magic user while on adventures in the magical NuDCU. SHAZAM would be like the HARRY POTTER series in overall tone and scope, with Mary, Blond Freddy and the others being a part of the book's supporting cast. Meanwhile, with Billy and "Captain Marvel" being separate people, THUNDERWORLD would be more all-ages, and would serve as a direct successor to the old Fawcett books.

After that, I would that Mary Marvel (or Mary Shazam?) get a chance to have her own book (WHIZ COMICS perhaps?), have the different Billy Batson(s) meet different versions of Captain Marvel (including the 1970s live action version). and then have a big crossover where all the Marvel Family(s) would gather together to face off against a multidimensional threat poised by Doc Sivana, the Sivana Family, the Monster Society, the Black Adam Family, the Seven Sins and the Three Faces of Evil. Still, I doubt that DC would go that far, though it is nice that the original Captain Marvel will be seen in CONVERGENCE soon.

I wouldn't mind having both a Shazam and a Thunderworld series. DC can easily turn Thunderworld into a digital series so that way it does not interrupt the current flow of the New 52. Like they have already done with Adventures of Superman, Batman '66, etc. As for myself, I prefer Morrison's take on Captain Marvel instead of Johns'.

[Tenzel Kim]

It's not even necessarily realism that puts things on the bottom of my reading stack, but a sort of evolution that began with attempts at realism.

It's not realistic for someone like the Joker to just keep getting worse and worse because it means that at some point he should be cured or dead. Getting worse is a sign that the Joker himself sees his own madness on some level, and in that respect getting worse because he's struggling inside. To have him simply turn rabid forever isn't at all realistic.

Nor is it realistic for Magneto to waffle between good and bad the way he does. Yes, people can change, but at the core they remain who they've always been throughout and only the tools they use to deal with the world change. Only on soap operas does basic morality shift constantly so that you never know who the bad guy will be from month to month. Well, soap operas and the X-Men. Which is no longer on the bottom due to the fact that I dropped it decades ago.

I actually pretty much agree. I'm not sure realism is the right word but it is the word being thrown around a lot to explain why the "old ways don't work". The added "realism" or maturity make the stories feel more real and the characters more relateable. Something I'm not sure I agree with. Or at the very least something I don't think is actually "needed". Sure in order to tell some stories it is, but I'm not sure I need the characters to have a lot of flaws to be relateable or to enjoy their stories. I like to have superheroes that are better than me. More heroic, more idealistic and more super than me. Characters that embody something we'd like to strive towards but know we'd never be able to accomplish. A dream of something better.

To have Billy Batson be an upbeat kid with a strong sense of justice and optimism, maybe even naivity in his belief in the good of this world despite being brought up in an orphanage or on the street might not be all that realistic but I like him because of these qualities.

[Dataweaver]

I wouldn't mind having both a Shazam and a Thunderworld series. DC can easily turn Thunderworld into a digital series so that way it does not interrupt the current flow of the New 52. Like they have already done with Adventures of Superman, Batman '66, etc. As for myself, I prefer Morrison's take on Captain Marvel instead of Johns'.

Or, y’know, let it interrupt the current flow of the New 52. I’m hoping that in the post-Convergence DCU the Multiverse will take on more prominence.