Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2021

[HypnoHustler]

my bad, i was on a jurgens thing and totally missed where you said dematteis.

i'd have been curious to see how long they could have pulled it off for if they had the guts to stay the course. i don't doubt it would have reversed at some point, but it may have had more steam than we'll ever know.

The longest a legacy character took over for an original was Wally West taking over Flash from Barry Allen. That lasted more than twenty years (and never should’ve been reversed imo). Others range from a few months (Ben Reilly, Azrael, Jim Rhodes, Johnny Walker, etc) to a few years (Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke, Jaime Reyes, etc). Maybe they would’ve kept Ben until the Spider-Man movie until 2002, but Peter Parker is so synonymous with the Spider-Man identity, I really don’t think it would’ve been sustainable in the long term. And there were not willing to commit to Ben taking the Peter ID as it made no sense in-story for Ben to do that while OG Peter was still alive.

[boots]

The longest a legacy character took over for an original was Wally West taking over Flash from Barry Allen. That lasted more than twenty years (and never should’ve been reversed imo). Others range from a few months (Ben Reilly, Azrael, Jim Rhodes, Johnny Walker, etc) to a few years (Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke, Jaime Reyes, etc).

personally, i would've been happy with both wally and kyle remaining as the "one true".

Maybe they would’ve kept Ben until the Spider-Man movie until 2002, but Peter Parker is so synonymous with the Spider-Man identity, I really don’t think it would’ve been sustainable in the long term.

no disagreement from me. i'd have imagined a similar kyle rayner length tenure, maybe a touch shorter.

And there were not willing to commit to Ben taking the Peter ID as it made no sense in-story for Ben to do that while OG Peter was still alive.

that was the hole they'd written themselves into. even fully committing to ben as the real peter parker...how do you make that transition without making peter dye his hair and change his name? though they did have their cake and eat it with the marvel/dc cross over.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

from another interview at toddmathy in 2012:


How did you come up with Ben’s supporting cast? What made you have Ben take a job at a coffee shop rather then working at the Daily Bugle?

[Dan J] We wanted to change things up a bit. There had been a history of coffee shops being a part of the Spidey-verse, if you go all the way back to Stan’s issues, so we thought that might be fun. It allowed Ben to come into contact with a lot of different people.

Do you think the jettisoning of the familiar Spider-Man supporting cast hurt Ben Reilly’s chances or did you think the character was doomed from the start?

[Dan J] I don’t know that it was doomed from the start. Marvel wanted a younger, unattached Spider-Man. That was their solution at the time and something they would clearly address a few years later.

When did Marvel realize that Ben Reilly wasn’t working and they needed to get Peter back into the costume?

[Dan J] I don’t know that was quite how the decision was made. It involved more than just Ben and whether or not he was working. When I first started, they said Peter Parker was going to go away not be seen. They were going to commit 100% to Ben. But that never really happened. As long as Peter was going to be on the scene, he had to be Spidey.

the thing that stood out to me there was the stuff on whether or not ben worked as a character.

Fascinating stuff. I knew that around 2016 where it was literal 20 years after the fact he'd had mellowed out but he's already being a whole lot more receptive here - he even lays it all out that he doesn't think the premise was doomed from the start or anything like that. I'm not sure how he has things lined up with his work for DC and whatnot and that right now he's mostly the variant cover artist for the Ben books but I'd love to see him do more issues with the character again.

I mentioned this to HypnoHustler months back too, but Steve Skroce (who's also on cover duty for DeMatteis' book) said in an interview that when he was doing stuff for Marvel he wanted to do the "classics" (and mentioned Spidey specifically), I figured he meant Spider-Peter, but since he's also doing Ben covers I guess either he also mellowed out or never had a problem with the character to begin with.

[HypnoHustler]

Fascinating stuff. I knew that around 2016 where it was literal 20 years after the fact he'd had mellowed out but he's already being a whole lot more receptive here - he even lays it all out that he doesn't think the premise was doomed from the start or anything like that. I'm not sure how he has things lined up with his work for DC and whatnot and that right now he's mostly the variant cover artist for the Ben books but I'd love to see him do more issues with the character again.

I mentioned this to HypnoHustler months back too, but Steve Skroce (who's also on cover duty for DeMatteis' book) said in an interview that when he was doing stuff for Marvel he wanted to do the "classics" (and mentioned Spidey specifically), I figured he meant Spider-Peter, but since he's also doing Ben covers I guess either he also mellowed out or never had a problem with the character to begin with.

Hmmmn…. Well, Skroce only did one Spider-Ben issue of ASM (part 3 of Revelations). I know from Glenn’s comments in ‘Life of Reilly’ he didn’t leave on the best of terms with the Spidey office due to his inability to keep to deadlines and only drew 7 or 8 issues scattered over about a year. Maybe it’s a case of taking what he can get, or maybe it just doesn’t matter to him whether it’s Ben or Peter… I’ve never seen him state a preference one way or the other.

On the flip-side, I think there’s two creators who actually prefer Ben to Peter; JM DeMatteis and Todd Dezago. JM said in a recent interview he had nothing else to say about Peter and if he was offered another project starring him he’s not sure he’d take it on… but in contrast there’s a treasure trove of unexplored material when it comes to Ben’s character and only the surface has been scratched. Dezago would practically gush about Ben when I would correspond with him, he thought it was a waste to kill him and has good memories doing the Looter and Swarm stories with Mike Wieringo. Almost every nod to Ben (or his supporting cast) during the post-clone saga era when Marvel was trying to keep references to a minimum is something he snuck in to the books.

[Spiderfan001]

When I asked JMD a couple weeks ago he said "he'd certainly be open to writing Peter".

Also are there any Dezago comics I should check out?Is her writing these day?

[HypnoHustler]

When I asked JMD a couple weeks ago he said "he'd certainly be open to writing Peter".

Also are there any Dezago comics I should check out?Is her writing these day?

I don’t know about recent. I think losing his regular collaborator and friend Ringo affected him a lot. Certainly one of his strongest works (besides Sensational) was his creator-owned fantasy comic ‘Tellos’ (also with Mike Wieringo).

[Spiderfan001]

I don’t know about recent. I think losing his regular collaborator and friend Ringo affected him a lot. Certainly one of his strongest works (besides Sensational) was his creator-owned fantasy comic ‘Tellos’ (also with Mike Wieringo).

What is Tellos about?
I'd like to check it oit

[HypnoHustler]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellos

[Pav]

baggy or oversized clothing is huge in fashion and normal street wear so i don't mind that it's crept into designs after 50 years. even in that regard it's not that much of a leap, it's simply taking the jackets and hoodies that are fairly normalised in superhero costumes now and making it an actual part of the costume rather than an accessory. it's like the next step in the scarlet spider>spider gwen > miles morales costume evolution.

Personally, I think this trend is one of the best things to happen in comics over the past twenty years or so. I'd give credit to Adrian Alphona for designing the look of the original Runaways, whose "regular clothes" essentially served as their "costumes." And then we got America Chavez, who had a whole wardrobe of "regular clothes" that served as her costume, which is as realistic a take on what super-powered young people would do these days as I can imagine.

Dezago would practically gush about Ben when I would correspond with him, he thought it was a waste to kill him and has good memories doing the Looter and Swarm stories with Mike Wieringo. Almost every nod to Ben (or his supporting cast) during the post-clone saga era when Marvel was trying to keep references to a minimum is something he snuck in to the books.

I'll be forever grateful to Todd Dezago, because those references really helped while I mourned for Ben -- especially the DK storyline and the end to the Technomancers storyline, in which Peter gets to say goodbye to Ben's spirit. It was nice to know that SOMEONE in the Spidey office was mourning, too, and refused to just wipe him completely away from the comics.

On another note what direction do people want for Ben after Beyond(hoping he isn't killed in this)?

I've gotta hope that Marvel has learned that 1) there are enough Ben fans to make regular appearances or even a monthly worthwhile; and 2) those fans, by and large, want to see Ben as a heroic Spider-Character.

If this is the case, I can only hope they give us some kind of Spider-Man Beyond series, or even Slingers Beyond -- not necessarily referencing a continued relationship with Beyond Corp, but referencing the idea that Ben can go "beyond" the normal trappings of a Peter Parker story.

-Pav, who has even softened on Ben going into space...

[Sr. Bungle]

I think biker Ben as a travelling Spider-Man idea still has some legs after Beyond

[HypnoHustler]

I think biker Ben as a travelling Spider-Man idea still has some legs after Beyond

I’m torn as I enjoy Lost Years Ben (aka Biker Ben), but also like him back in NYC interacting with Peter and MJ. The former status quo is probably more sustainable in the long-term than the latter though.

I have criticisms of Beyond (especially the last two issues), but seeing Ben in modern continuity as Spider-Man again… I sometimes have to remind myself that I’m not dreaming (I definitely had a couple dreams when he was still “dead” (and being mostly ignored by the spider office) that I’d go to my LCS and a new issue on the racks would have him coming back from the dead). It’s cool they’re doing this for Ben fans.

[Huntsman Spider]

Personally, I think this trend is one of the best things to happen in comics over the past twenty years or so. I'd give credit to Adrian Alphona for designing the look of the original Runaways, whose "regular clothes" essentially served as their "costumes." And then we got America Chavez, who had a whole wardrobe of "regular clothes" that served as her costume, which is as realistic a take on what super-powered young people would do these days as I can imagine.



I'll be forever grateful to Todd Dezago, because those references really helped while I mourned for Ben -- especially the DK storyline and the end to the Technomancers storyline, in which Peter gets to say goodbye to Ben's spirit. It was nice to know that SOMEONE in the Spidey office was mourning, too, and refused to just wipe him completely away from the comics.



I've gotta hope that Marvel has learned that 1) there are enough Ben fans to make regular appearances or even a monthly worthwhile; and 2) those fans, by and large, want to see Ben as a heroic Spider-Character.

If this is the case, I can only hope they give us some kind of Spider-Man Beyond series, or even Slingers Beyond -- not necessarily referencing a continued relationship with Beyond Corp, but referencing the idea that Ben can go "beyond" the normal trappings of a Peter Parker story.

-Pav, who has even softened on Ben going into space...

I think biker Ben as a travelling Spider-Man idea still has some legs after Beyond

I’m torn as I enjoy Lost Years Ben (aka Biker Ben), but also like him back in NYC interacting with Peter and MJ. The former status quo is probably more sustainable in the long-term than the latter though.

I have criticisms of Beyond (especially the last two issues), but seeing Ben in modern continuity as Spider-Man again… I sometimes have to remind myself that I’m not dreaming (I definitely had a couple dreams when he was still “dead” (and being mostly ignored by the spider office) that I’d go to my LCS and a new issue on the racks would have him coming back from the dead). It’s cool they’re doing this for Ben fans.

Those sound pretty good, and if you're still keeping up with Iron Man, Pav, then Ben has indeed gone into space, albeit as the Scarlet Spider instead of Spider-Man. I wouldn't mind seeing Ben as Spider-Man in a space adventure, though, and Ben drifting around the country as a friendly traveling Spider-Man would be great as well. I could see it finally addressing his actions in Clone Conspiracy in a way that enables him to focus properly on atonement, as he'd have a rogues gallery of "reanimated" bad guys who chose to waste their second shot at life on still being bad guys to round up, seeing them as his responsibility.

[boots]

Personally, I think this trend is one of the best things to happen in comics over the past twenty years or so. I'd give credit to Adrian Alphona for designing the look of the original Runaways, whose "regular clothes" essentially served as their "costumes." And then we got America Chavez, who had a whole wardrobe of "regular clothes" that served as her costume, which is as realistic a take on what super-powered young people would do these days as I can imagine.

just googled, and there's a few variations and i like 'em all. it's almost gone full circle back to the influence of pre superhero characters like zorro and the shadow just with a modern style.

I'll be forever grateful to Todd Dezago, because those references really helped while I mourned for Ben -- especially the DK storyline and the end to the Technomancers storyline, in which Peter gets to say goodbye to Ben's spirit. It was nice to know that SOMEONE in the Spidey office was mourning, too, and refused to just wipe him completely away from the comics.

defalco at the time also seemed somewhat respectful of the entire deal, taking care to use elements of the saga in spider-girl. he's an interesting one, since it seems he was deadset against ben initially and warming to the idea over time.

[MisterC]

I would love to see a Scarlet Spiders road trip book with Ben and Kaine as equal leads. It would be the story of estranged brothers learning to coexist and getting to know one another. Ben and Kaine have a long history but to my knowledge haven't had a proper reconcilation or even a real conversation about their lives post Clone Saga.

I think a road trip book with them stuck together would be a cool twist on how they started out. I think Kaine likely regrets who he was under the effects of degeneration and Parkers are accepting of redemption. I think there is a ton of untapped potential between these two, right down to the name Scarlet Spider. Something Ben shunned but Kaine embraced and leaned into

[bob.schoonover]

On another note what direction do people want for Ben after Beyond(hoping he isn't killed in this)?

I'd like to see him in a team book - I think that's the best place for him right now (there are plenty of solo title Spider books). Something akin to DC's Titans (do the New Warriors still exist? Can we bring them back?) might work - there are oh so many legacy heroes that you could put together a pretty good team with some subset of Amadeus Cho/She-Hulk, Ben, Valkyrie, War Machine/Riri, etc. as a differently-oriented Avengers team