Isn't Legacy really rather good!..?

[Matternativ]

Will there was Vision.

But what can't you agree with?

I don't agree that it was all dumb stuff.
I liked the relatively relaxed atmosphere and self contained "low-stakes" storytelling up until CW II.

Then Hydra Cap happened which I outright loved.

[Raye]

Yes, I suppose Legacy is more enjoyable than pre-Legacy. You had old man Steve Rogers there for a year or so until he was turned into young Steve Rogers, but Legacy is the first real young Steve Rogers we’ve had since Remenders Iron Nail story, pre-Secret Wars. That sanity at least has been restored.

But why do you feel a “bigger relaunch” is on the horizon? I think Legacy has a long way to go in the form it is at the moment. There is enough new momentum in the books, and they will have to, because there will not be any Event spikes to give Marvel it’s profit hits.

Don't want to put words in his mouth, dunno if this is what he meant. But Bleeding Cool ran a thing a while back saying that Legacy was kind of a bridge period that would last like, a year or less, or something, and then something big would happen to shake things up, maybe a relaunch. As with any rumor, it should be taken with a grain of salt, of course. But, with the things teased in the Legacy standalone itself, it does seem something big is going to be looming on the horizon, quite probably culminating in the Celestials attacking, which could lead to a major status quo change for a number of characters and such. Also, No Surrender definitely feels like them wrapping up the current Avengers threads with an eye towards setting up what comes next. It's bridging the gap between one set of Avengers books and whatever follows. While I don't know if i would call this shakeup a 'relaunch' per se, with the return to legacy numbering, going back to a relaunch at #1 for most books a year or so later would definitely feel very odd, but i guess you never know, but it will probably mean a new marketing banner on the books, new status quos, creative team shuffling etc. I mean, in short, don't expect it to last any longer than any other publishing initiative they have done, it may actually be considerably shorter if No Surrender is going to end as the next thing begins.

Will there was Vision.

But what can't you agree with?

Again, i can't put words in his mouth, but as someone who has likewise enjoyed what I have read from Marvel lately, I presume they don't agree with you saying all the post Secret Wars stuff was 'dumb' and would necessitate a reboot.

*edit - haha, was typing that at the same time as him, apparently. well, there you go, I was right.

[TheFerg714]

I'm so far enjoying Legacy, and looking at my previews just out for January issues it looks to me like there's more good stuff coming!

I'm happy that you're enjoying yourself, but from the little that I've read, it's just more crap.

Avengers: No Surrender, 16 part saga, is going to be fantastic..everyone is going to be in it!

I think it's a good thing that they're finally consolidating their Avengers line, but $4 every week... I'm not sure the market can sustain something like that. We'll see though. Overall, I'd say it's a good idea. Now just get Waid out of there.

Another mini epic on the X side of things Phoenix Resurrection..!.

Jean Grey has died and been resurrected a lot... I just can't bring myself to care.

Adam Warlock's return in Guardians #150!!

"Omg Guardians Vol. 2 teased Adam Warlock! We need to bring him back and make a big deal out of it!"

Waid and Samnee on Cap America, with Kraven in!

I'm down. Hopefully it's not as s*** as his Avengers/Champions runs.

Marvel 2 in 1..Ben and Johnny, nice!

I suppose it's overall a good thing that the F4 is slowly coming back, but at this point it just feels like they're blue balling us.

Excalibur in X - Gold Annual..! X titles looking good these days!

Yea, not really. Maybe a few.

Defenders #9 Another good title..extra roster members? Spider-Woman on the cover!

More Bendis crap.

And all the colour and "pizzazz" that goes with the books coming out under Legacy, some great teams and lovely vibrant artwork!

Art is subjective, but I find the Legacy logo and art design to be kind of boring. DC's stuff pops on the shelf way better. Plus, the interiors in Marvel books tend to not be great.

[Triniking1234]

Nothing in the OP has happened as yet.

So far I'm enjoying the Avengers/Champions cross-over. I love ASM but I wish Parker Industries didn't have to go. Not liking the X-Men Blue/Gold cross-over so far therefore I hope the follow-up arcs are good. Falcon was boring. Venom was brilliant. Nothing happened in Iron Man #593.

I still have All-New Wolvie, Cable and Thor from last week to finish.

[DragonsChi]

Im excited about it. If it is what I think it sounds like. Been saying for a awhile now Marvel should build up the old with the new. When that happens fans all around will be more pleased with the company. If they are doing that then I will for sure be more excited for things to come. May even buy more titles.

[CentralPower]

The Avengers and Spider-Man events look interesting, if only for the creative teams.

I pointed out a while back that I am interested in how the teams are not staying on their regular series, and are being moved together across all of the related series. (For example, Costa is not staying on "Venom". He is being paired with Slott on the entire event.) This makes it harder to just pick the issues written by creators that one would normally follow. (I am interested in the Avengers for Ewing, less for Waid. But, I cannot avoid Waid if I buy in for "No Surrender".)

[Prof. Warren]

The Avengers and Spider-Man events look interesting, if only for the creative teams.

I pointed out a while back that I am interested in how the teams are not staying on their regular series, and are being moved together across all of the related series. (For example, Costa is not staying on "Venom". He is being paired with Slott on the entire event.) This makes it harder to just pick the issues written by creators that one would normally follow. (I am interested in the Avengers for Ewing, less for Waid. But, I cannot avoid Waid if I buy in for "No Surrender".)

Costa and Slott are co-writing the Venom/ASM event but that doesn't mean Costa is leaving Venom or that Slott will continue to co-write Venom when Venom Inc. is over. Costa will still be the writer on Venom for the foreseeable future.

[CentralPower]

I get that. After the event, the series go back to normal.

But, normally, during a large event, I might read the issues written by writers I care about, and skip the others. That would be less an issue with Slott and Costa (as I like both). But, in the case of "No Surrender", my normal strategy would result in me buying the Ewing issues, but not the Waid issues. That is not an option with Marvel's current system.

I cannot blame Marvel for trying this. But, as a comic buyer, the idea makes me flinch.

When a series I like gets pulled in to an event, I normally just read the issues written by creators that I like. For example, I skipped most of "Secret Empire" and "Civil War II", but read some of the tie-ins.

"Secret Wars" was the first event I jumped in for in several years. My pull-file had a back-log of two months, because Marvel's output exceeded my time and money. (Mine you, the main "Secret Wars" series was so delayed that I still caught up before it ended. But, that is another story.)

Marvel keeping creative teams consistent across events can work for smaller events. But, how many fans can or will follow a larger event using that model? (Imagine a mixed creative team on something the scale of "Secret Wars" or "Civil War II". Now imagine that happening once or twice a year.)

[Calaigah]

Think after January, we'll be able to judge better.

As an X-fan, I'm very happy about Jean, Logan and Xavier returning though. We'll see how their returns are handled though.

[jackolover]

I get that. After the event, the series go back to normal.

But, normally, during a large event, I might read the issues written by writers I care about, and skip the others. That would be less an issue with Slott and Costa (as I like both). But, in the case of "No Surrender", my normal strategy would result in me buying the Ewing issues, but not the Waid issues. That is not an option with Marvel's current system.

I cannot blame Marvel for trying this. But, as a comic buyer, the idea makes me flinch.

When a series I like gets pulled in to an event, I normally just read the issues written by creators that I like. For example, I skipped most of "Secret Empire" and "Civil War II", but read some of the tie-ins.

"Secret Wars" was the first event I jumped in for in several years. My pull-file had a back-log of two months, because Marvel's output exceeded my time and money. (Mine you, the main "Secret Wars" series was so delayed that I still caught up before it ended. But, that is another story.)

Marvel keeping creative teams consistent across events can work for smaller events. But, how many fans can or will follow a larger event using that model? (Imagine a mixed creative team on something the scale of "Secret Wars" or "Civil War II". Now imagine that happening once or twice a year.)

Call me crazy, but I would have rather Secret Wars universe persisted instead of going to ANAD. Marvel lost purchase from those Domains which were a breath of fresh air. It had everything. Danger, suspense, revisionist characters, and changed situations. Maybe get rid of Doom, but leave Battleworld the way it was, with the Wall, with the Zombies, The Ultrons, and the Thors. Looking back at what Reed did, I was disappointed with ANAD.

[WebLurker]

Call me crazy, but I would have rather Secret Wars universe persisted instead of going to ANAD. Marvel lost purchase from those Domains which were a breath of fresh air. It had everything. Danger, suspense, revisionist characters, and changed situations. Maybe get rid of Doom, but leave Battleworld the way it was, with the Wall, with the Zombies, The Ultrons, and the Thors. Looking back at what Reed did, I was disappointed with ANAD.

Well, some of the Domains became ongoing series (e.g. A-Force, X-Men '92, Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows) and there was that Contest of Champions series that took place on a re-formed 2005 Battleworld. Not all of them lasted (is RYV the last of the '05 Secret Wars series still running?) and it's not quite what you were describing, but they did kind of keep it going.

[Za Waldo]

I don't agree that it was all dumb stuff.
I liked the relatively relaxed atmosphere and self contained "low-stakes" storytelling up until CW II.

Then Hydra Cap happened which I outright loved.

I didn't say it was all dumb stuff. I said: Could you imagine they did reboot after Secret Wars only to do all the dumb stuff they did putting them in the same place where they should be rebooting again. This isn't saying EVERYTHING was dumb, but Civil War 2 and Hydra Cap were two very stupid events in which they turned two of their flagship HEROES (and others) in fascist. These would be very stupid things to do. They didn't even have good non character ruining outs for these things.

You loved Hydra Cap? Why? Putting aside that it totally fucked the character up, the main comics surrounding this event were not well written or thought out. I gave it the benefit of the doubt at the beginning, it wasn't a well written issue by any means, but it seemed like maybe something interesting could have come of it. But then it just kept going, and then it became a event, and then you're just kind of left wondering who the idiot was that let all this happen and wrap up so stupidly. Felt like an idea someone had without any thought of where it was going, like the only concept that was there at the being was "What if Captain America was a Nazi"? I mean, you don't really have to know how you're going to do everything beforehand, but when that's you're idea you probably should have a good out for the end before going forward.

[Za Waldo]

Call me crazy, but I would have rather Secret Wars universe persisted instead of going to ANAD. Marvel lost purchase from those Domains which were a breath of fresh air. It had everything. Danger, suspense, revisionist characters, and changed situations. Maybe get rid of Doom, but leave Battleworld the way it was, with the Wall, with the Zombies, The Ultrons, and the Thors. Looking back at what Reed did, I was disappointed with ANAD.

I don't think they really needed to keep Battle World around, but they should have kept some more stuff from Secret Wars, and went about keeping the stuff they did differently.

Some of titles should have become ongoings in bigger ways. Weirdworld was great, but post-Secret Wars Weirdworld sucked. X-Men '92 should have just been the main X-Men comic; being out-of-continuity was probably the thing that killed that comic, because comic fans are weird and out-of-continuity comics aren't "important". There were some people that were brought on during Secret Wars that should have been kept around for new titles post-Secret Wars, but Marvel seemingly doesn't know how to use an event like that and didn't. The weirdest thing about Secret Wars it it was sold as being this thing that would shake things up, but it went right back to business as usual once it ended, and Marvel did nothing to push the very few good titles they had coming out of it.

[WebLurker]

X-Men '92 should have just been the main X-Men comic; being out-of-continuity was probably the thing that killed that comic, because comic fans are weird and out-of-continuity comics aren't "important".

I don't get that mindset, to be honest. Good stories are good stories (although, to be fair, telling me that a story is part of the main Marvel continuity is a turn-off for me).

Weird that X-Men '92 ended so quickly; I recall that it was very well-received when it was the Secret Wars mini. It was also a continuation of that old cartoon that a lot of people seem to love.

[SignorMiracolo]

I get that. After the event, the series go back to normal.

But, normally, during a large event, I might read the issues written by writers I care about, and skip the others. That would be less an issue with Slott and Costa (as I like both). But, in the case of "No Surrender", my normal strategy would result in me buying the Ewing issues, but not the Waid issues. That is not an option with Marvel's current system.

I cannot blame Marvel for trying this. But, as a comic buyer, the idea makes me flinch.

When a series I like gets pulled in to an event, I normally just read the issues written by creators that I like. For example, I skipped most of "Secret Empire" and "Civil War II", but read some of the tie-ins.

"Secret Wars" was the first event I jumped in for in several years. My pull-file had a back-log of two months, because Marvel's output exceeded my time and money. (Mine you, the main "Secret Wars" series was so delayed that I still caught up before it ended. But, that is another story.)

Marvel keeping creative teams consistent across events can work for smaller events. But, how many fans can or will follow a larger event using that model? (Imagine a mixed creative team on something the scale of "Secret Wars" or "Civil War II". Now imagine that happening once or twice a year.)

These are crossovers not event, a single story told throughout multiple books. It's never been possible to only read parts of a crossover. Only difference with the past instead of a crossover with different writers writing different books the writers are writing everything together. But the end result doesn't change.