Characters Who Outlived Their Point

[manwhohaseverything]

My problem is he has become pointless. He was interesting when his existence did test Batman and provide a counter argument. But these days he’s just watered down and compromised. Your trying to claim he all this and that Gotham, yet in actuality his series takes him out out of a Gotham for the most part till Batman calls him back.

He is taken out of Gotham precisely because he would be taken down in gotham. His friends aren't his body gaurds. Even with them, if batman has backup. He would get slaughtered or worse get them captured . A jason who doesn't care for the undiserables would essentially be like the league of shadows or bane in the movies, Holier than thou judges. The focus being on that(his relationships with these people ) and his vigilante activities being side provides that layer for people to connect. So, jason takes a hit when he absolutely feels like justice is'nt being done like penguin or blackmask. Ofcourse, there would be people who would be above his weight class he can't take. But, the difference between bruce and jason is that. Jason doesn't because he isn't physically capable nor does he have the resources. Bruce on the other hand doesn't want to loose control. Jason and the gang can only run with league around.

[Aahz]

I think Jason lost to some degree his original point, but the has found a new niche (the one that was vacant after Hitman was canceled) where he does quite well.

But that's not a bad thing, that is basically what happend with a lot of characters that were created as antgonists and became popular in their own right, like the suicide squad members or Deathstroke.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think Jason lost to some degree his original point, but the has found a new niche (the one that was vacant after Hitman was canceled) where he does quite well.

But that's not a bad thing, that is basically what happend with a lot of characters that were created as antgonists and became popular in their own right, like the suicide squad members or Deathstroke.

Precisely, i agree with this. Hitman is a nice comparison.

[gregpersons]

Hal Jordan has outlived his point.

Of all of the DCU heroes to incorporate legacy into the story's fabric, Green Lantern makes more sense than anyone. It's more interesting if the most powerful weapon in the universe is in the hands of some screw-up doofus who needs to step up, rather than a super-competent flying cop.

IMO, Hal works much better in the past — as "the best" one who you'll never live up to — but yet who also turned to the dark side, becoming one of the most fearsome villains ever who dies and returns time and again.

Hal as Parallax should be a major DCU villain, he could be like Magneto or Darth Vader... you can have comics and stories of Young Prime Hal but do it as a period piece... and then have him be Dark Hal in the present.

Like Vader, or Magneto, or Kylo Ren... Dark Hal Parallax sometimes is good, but he follows no orders, and gives no farts. His whole thing is being a maverick. It makes sense that he would eventually become his own authority as Parallax.

[Johnny]

All of DC's major heroes are super-competent and nobody claims they're outdated because of it, yet always say that about Hal Jordan. I don't think I ever understood that. Shrugs.

On topic, it's probably Ted Kord for me. I don't dislike the character but there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for him anymore.

[DrNewGod]

^Yeah. I love Ted, but you're right.

It should be noted that for most of post crisis, she wasn't even Superman's cousin and barely interacted with him.

Which was part of robbing her of her point. I like PG, somebody needs to come up with a new motivating reason for her. Personally, I think she belongs on E2.

On other topics, The Red Hood's moral authority and Batman's tolerance thereof seem like they belong on another forum.

[king81992]

It does actually. Jason doesn't go after wally for killing roy. While, the so called trinity does. Roy was jason's close friend and the one who saved him from batman . Then superman and batman bring harley quinn to his coming out party in the hall of justice. So much for not looking like hypocrite.
Depends, what you mean by soften. If Jason being a good guy vigilante without no kill rule, is softening him. Then, i don't care. I want it to happen.Last minute or not, catwoman killed. Wonderwoman killed. Superman killed. Aquaman killed. hal jordan. The guy went nuts and massacred everyone(it's canon).Jason doesn't kill indiscriminately. He doesn't have punisher motif anymore. That's better.the other side needs to be said. He kills when he needs to and is provoked. He might be an outlaw. But, Batman has always been a hypocrite.i don't care, how batman is made to look. Because batman fans always want batman to be a perfect man who never breaks. It's nice to see some green in the blue eyes of his.i see Batman's cognitive dissonance giving layers.

Jason doesn't even know where Wally is, so he can't go after him.

[king81992]

It doesn't matter.batman's rogues running around proves free that, justice system failed. Jason is living breathing symbol of batman's failures. It's also why goes after him so much, unlike others even his friends . Jason proves the Gotham city is effectively lawless with certain pockets of order like gordon. Jason doesn't want lawlessness,either.He is just more connected to the ground and people. Bruce can't be that. He is a king(i am being figurative) . A king disguising himself to find the problem of his subjects is great and admirable. But, he can only sympathise and never empathise. Naturally, bruce is only a visitor to their world, an outsider. Jason is born there and lives there. He could never know what killer croc, bane, bizarro.. Etc feels. Bruce's trips as kid disguising himself and his trips as batman, is effectively that.

It strangley puts banes QUOTE into perspective and it fits jason. "Oh, you think darkness is your ally. But you merely adopted the dark; I was born in it, molded by it.". Jason ofcourse," doesn't blink when the abyss looked back ". Which bruce did with his fear of his insanity. Nor did he turn blind like bane who didn't have love. Jason does what he has to and doesn't loose himself. Especially, because he saved the so called undesirables and in turn they save him.

Harley running around free as air,acknowledged as an 'anti hero' and getting a free pass from everyone has nothing to do with Batman's failures and hypocrisy.

The DC editorial is 100% to blame for this situation. They want to push Harley but refuse to have her go through an actual redemption arc. Instead of Harley changing for the better, she acts the same and the other characters give her a free pass because she's 'LOL crazy, randumb and quirky.

[lucius121]

It's clear that the guys commenting haven't read Harley's solo, so what are you basing this on?

[lemonpeace]

Jason doesn't even know where Wally is, so he can't go after him.

he knows Wally is in prison, (I don't think anyone's noticed he's out in the Multiverse yet) he explicitly says he wouldn't go after Wally for Roy because he doesn't really blame him for what happened.

[manwhohaseverything]

Jason doesn't even know where Wally is, so he can't go after him.

He didn't go after him in prison. Even if he did know. He doesn't blame wally

[manwhohaseverything]

Harley running around free as air,acknowledged as an 'anti hero' and getting a free pass from everyone has nothing to do with Batman's failures and hypocrisy.

The DC editorial is 100% to blame for this situation. They want to push Harley but refuse to have her go through an actual redemption arc. Instead of Harley changing for the better, she acts the same and the other characters give her a free pass because she's 'LOL crazy, randumb and quirky.

When did i say that? All i said he can't apply different standards for different people. He does in casr of red hood. And there might be a reason for it. His friends have killed.

[manwhohaseverything]

It's clear that the guys commenting haven't read Harley's solo, so what are you basing this on?

Basing what? She was joker's partner. Every heinous act he committed harley has a share in and was co-conspirator of. She cannot be anywhere near the league if wally west or heck! Jason isn't allowed.

[achilles]

^Yeah. I love Ted, but you're right.



Which was part of robbing her of her point. I like PG, somebody needs to come up with a new motivating reason for her. Personally, I think she belongs on E2.

On other topics, The Red Hood's moral authority and Batman's tolerance thereof seem like they belong on another forum.

Yes, someone should absolutely come up with a raison d'être for her, one that gives her not only a unique niche, but makes good sense. Personally, IMO, she's a sci-fi character, so they need to emphasize that, maybe play up Krypton super science with her in some way. Bottom line is that doesn't mean she's outlived her "point" such as it is; but rather than she's a neglected character nobody has ever bothered to develop much beyond the basics, and yet she's still compelling enough to command quite a few fans years after she ceased being published. She, like other DC characters, needs work, but DC only seems to lavish that on characters Johns or some other influential creator likes. They need to get beyond that and give those not fully fleshed out and not used well characters a chance. Work to fix them.

[lucius121]

Basing what? She was joker's partner. Every heinous act he committed harley has a share in and was co-conspirator of. She cannot be anywhere near the league if wally west or heck! Jason isn't allowed.

The difference is that Harley is no longer Joker's partner and hasn't been for a decade, all the heinous acts are far in the past, Wally West murdered a whole set of heroes last year. I honestly can't speak for Jason I don't read his book and have no idea what he has done, and unlike some I don't make points about characters I know nothing about.

As a side note I don't think Harley should actually be in the Justice league either, but not because of her past association with the Joker but because of present struggles with being a hero, she just got over the temptation to join Lex Luther.