Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Ulfhammer]

Or, she just restores the psychic rapport they'd previously shared for years (over a decade including their time in the future raising Nathan). And, with Xavier, who's been their mentor and trusted friend since they were teenagers, treats Scott for his PTSD.

But, that would've made sense.

I'm a little fuzzy so help me out here but I thought it was the rapport that allowed Jean to find Scott in TSFC. Maybe it was just her TP, or Nathan. It's been a while since I read that but IIRC they had the rapport prior to the Apocalypse merging and Scott didn't technically die so shouldn't it still have been intact at that point?

It's funny but given how often the rapport comes up the various writers seems to differ wildly in how effective it was or if it was even present at all. Even when it was clearly present, I have to admit I was never really sure if they were communicating using that, or just Jean's normal TP.

But yes, clearly the solution you're suggesting would have worked as well. I pitched my idea because Jean was adamant that she did not want to read his mind.

[Ulfhammer]

It wouldn't be weird for them to be friends, but it would be weird for them to accept only being friends considering their past. That's also part of the problem however, I don't think I want another redo of Tyke and Jeen with a slightly different interpretation. Starting up slow makes sense, but the build up to start shouldn't be a major issue.

Exactly the point I was trying to make yesterday. Tyke and Jeen were still very much in the getting to know you phase when they were pulled into the future, and the years that followed. That just wouldn't make sense for the adults. They know exactly what they're getting when it comes to each other. The only decision is whether to try again. I suppose they could say that they tried that twice before and it ended badly in one of those cases. The situation is very different now than it was at the beginning of NXM. I just never really saw them giving up on each other. It's one of the defining characteristics of their relationship, or at least it used to be.

Hopefully Hickman will put his cards on the table in regards to this relatively soon.

[Decoy]

One has to remember that in the past , their whole relationship has been basically Jean making the first moves.....she was I think the first to admit she had a thing for Scott over Warren, she made the first move I think in rekindling their romance in X-Factor, even proposing was her move (after Scott tried a few years earlier, and Editorial preferred that their wedding happen in the Main X-Men books and not X-Factor......).......if the incoming writers want to keep the trend going, it would be Jean to make the first moves in reconnecting with Cyclops again (either in HOX or the monthlies).......the optimist in me says they wouldn’t have reprinted so many stories with them together......or have Jean hold a vigil over a wounded Displaced Cyclops.......

this is why I dislike Morrison, he made things exceedingly complicated when a more competent writer would have, I don’t know, not have things be the way they are in the first place.......(like I don’t know, either have Scott take his time coming back from the Apocalypse thing, have Jean not be distant after she spent months looking for him, have either one of them locking both in the Danger Room until they iron out what’s wrong and oh not having a psychic affair with Emma Frost! That’s the big thing......it further ruined Cyclops after the whole Madelyn thing......it would take some fancy retcon plot to fix that....).......hopefully Hickman or whomever would salvage things......I’m not saying start with them being a couple right away, just either leave hints to that happening or wait until the monthlies start again........even wait a few months to pull the trigger.......just advice to incoming writers......the less said about AU’s or even the last 15 or so years, the better.......(the optimist also points out that Marvel’s Back To Basics Approach seems to be reverting many characters back to more familiar status quo’s, like Spider-Man being a street level hero, dating MJ while dealing with the Parker Luck, Thor has a hammer again, some artists show She Hulk at 90’s power levels, Eddie Brock connected to Venom again, Deadpool is more of a Merc again, etc.......point is things could be coming back around to a more favorable outcome)

The pessimist thinks just to spite people Scott would wind up with Madelyn again or even Psylocke, or Emma, while Jean gets killed off again by the 13th D’Bari Assassin who’s also a Death Commando.......or the dang Bishop/ Jean Thing continues (which I chalk up to the AU being false lives.....)......or she winds up with Beast........

We’ll know more by July with Uncanny/ AOX Omega/ SDCC/ HOX......hopefully.......

(btw, I’m sure fanfic writers have already gone through several scenarios, which would probably be better than half the Official Written stuff, yet Marvel doesn’t hire fans who know the characters that much anymore......)

[FUBAR007]

I'm a little fuzzy so help me out here but I thought it was the rapport that allowed Jean to find Scott in TSFC. Maybe it was just her TP, or Nathan. It's been a while since I read that but IIRC they had the rapport prior to the Apocalypse merging and Scott didn't technically die so shouldn't it still have been intact at that point?

The rapport was severed when Scott merged with Apocalypse. That's why Jean thought he was dead for so long. Then, Rogue had a vision of him while rescuing Lee Forrester from a hurricane. The vision convinced Jean that Scott was still alive, and she started looking for him. Even after he was separated from Apocalypse, the rapport remained severed. This was confirmed by Scott during a conversation with Logan during "Eve of Destruction".

It's funny but given how often the rapport comes up the various writers seems to differ wildly in how effective it was or if it was even present at all. Even when it was clearly present, I have to admit I was never really sure if they were communicating using that, or just Jean's normal TP.

Based on how Claremont and Lobdell portrayed it, the way the rapport worked was that Scott and Jean could communicate with each other telepathically, and they could sense both each other's presence--even over distances--and condition. On Scott's side, the latter seemed to work like a kind of hyper-intuition. For example, he could use it to find her if she was out of deliberate contact. IIRC, in Legion Quest, that's how the X-Men found Jean when she was unconscious after fighting Legion in the Negev Desert (X-Men vol. 2 #40). The rapport was also a kind of psychic tether linking their minds--it's how Mother Askani was able to pull the two of them into the future to raise Nathan.

Bunn played with the concept, too, with Tyke and Jeen, but their rapport was much less structured and perhaps more intense. They could involuntarily hear each other's private thoughts and sense each other's feelings.

[lancer]

And yet, according to Morrison himself, his intent was the exact opposite:

[Tom DeFalco]: "In your mind, did Scott and Emma commit adultery?"

[Morrison]: "The way I saw it was that Jean and Scott had become remote. For me, the great emotional moment for Scott and Jean was when they ran out to die together on the moon during the Phoenix Saga. After Jean died, Scott ended up with a lot of other women. Scott was very attractive to women even though he didn't know it and I wanted to play around with that. Since he was becoming emotionally remote from Jean, because she was becoming more and more godlike, it just seemed like he would naturally fall into the arms of someone more emotionally connected, which Emma actually was. Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife any more. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."

--from Comics Creators on X-Men by Tom DeFalco, p. 235

Morrison's intent was that Jean froze Scott out. But, the way he wrote it, it was Scott who froze Jean out.

Morrison didn't just botch Jott compared to how it'd been historically portrayed; he botched it compared to his own terms.

Exactly and I never got how he could say that. Surely he remembers his own run. It's not like it's even close. There was no sign of Phoenix until, I think, issue 120. Jean fights the U Men. Hell, it started before Morrison. Casey's first issue shows there is a strain. Morrison's first issue references it. 116 gives a figue of 5 months, I believe He has been back for 5 months since they touched each other. The whole scene in 117, with Logan, is about that. SHE has been physically and emotionally shut out. Then the annual where Emma tries to seduce him and the reader doesn't see the result. The reader doesn't know for sure until 139. Not that I ever thought he slept with her. Classic red herring. I think the annual was set between 177 and 118. ALL the problems are there before Phoenix.

Now, I've used Morrison's interviews in arguments about how I saw his intentions. But those were in situations that, in the comics themselves, had some ambiguity to them. He can say whatever he wants in an interview. In this case I don't care because the actual comics show the complete opposite I'm not going to assign 50/50 blame when I simply don't think the stories show that.

[Divine Spark]

So apparently Scott and Jean’s relationship was a major focus in the original cut of Dark Phoenix.

[phoenixzero23]

So apparently Scott and Jean’s relationship was a major focus in the original cut of Dark Phoenix.

Yeah it seems like the third act was a totally different thing, way more focused on them. I have seen that sadly many scenes between them were cut.

[MarvelMaster616]

Found this on Facebook a while back. I couldn't find a colored version, but I thought it was worth sharing.

Scott-Jean267.jpg

[MarvelMaster616]

So apparently Scott and Jean’s relationship was a major focus in the original cut of Dark Phoenix.

Yes, I heard that too. Hope we get to see some of those scenes in either some deleted scenes or an extended cut when the blu-ray comes out.

[phoenixzero23]

Found this on Facebook a while back. I couldn't find a colored version, but I thought it was worth sharing.

Scott-Jean267.jpg

It is incredible to think that the real Jean and Scott haven't been alive at the same time for almost 15 years. It is sad how they went from inseparable to this.

[DianaWw]

Question only for Jott fans.
If you could re do Morrison run, what problems would this relationship have and the many ways to work them out. In what way would apocalypse change Scott? How would the couple deal with this?
@Ulfhammer @Bell i am curious as to what you two would say.

[Gray Lensman]

Question only for Jott fans.
If you could re do Morrison run, what problems would this relationship have and the many ways to work them out. In what way would apocalypse change Scott? How would the couple deal with this?
@Ulfhammer @Bell i am curious as to what you two would say.

The first thing that I would change is that Jean doesn't die at the end - she either springs back due to the Phoenix, or has evolved past petty mortal concerns like dying. Either way, she and Scott actually have to provide the story with some actual closure of some kind before it is over.

I'll post something longer later, but I really must be getting to work shortly so I can't just yet.

[lurkerforyears]

Question only for Jott fans.
If you could re do Morrison run, what problems would this relationship have and the many ways to work them out. In what way would apocalypse change Scott? How would the couple deal with this?
@Ulfhammer @Bell i am curious as to what you two would say.

I am not a Jott fan (because I am not a shipper of any kind), but a good way to keep Jott after the Morrison run, while not having to change almost anything about the run, is, have Jean not die, and making the attraction Emma felt for Scott be the Sublime bacteria messing with her mind to weaken the X-Men, after all she did try the Kick drug on panel in the Quentin Quire story arc.
At the end she is cured of the Sublime bacteria and realizes Scott isnt even her type. And Scott continues his relationship with Jean

[Omega Alpha]

I am not a Jott fan (because I am not a shipper of any kind), but a good way to keep Jott after the Morrison run, while not having to change almost anything about the run, is, have Jean not die, and making the attraction Emma felt for Scott be the Sublime bacteria messing with her mind to weaken the X-Men, after all she did try the Kick drug on panel in the Quentin Quire story arc.
At the end she is cured of the Sublime bacteria and realizes Scott isnt even her type. And Scott continues his relationship with Jean

Yeah, this seems not only lame, but a repetition of the thing with Psylocke.

[bell]

I would change everything lol. Sit back this is going to be long.

The first issue with them would be about Scott's points of view and how they change. Second Jean trying to be a leader at the same time wanting a child.

Scott confuse with the ideas and the way Apocalypse sees the world, he stops believing in Xavier dream. This gives the couple a bit of drama as their dreams are no longer the same. Scott begins to abuse drugs and drinks. He can not stop his mind from thinking so he seeks ways to drown the thoughts.

Jean trys ways to help Scott but begins wondering if she had removed Apocalypse completely. Something is preventing their psychic report and she has a hard time reading Scott. She talks to him about having a child but he brush it off and says no.

No one knows that Apocalypse still has Scott undre his control, to keep the x men and specially Jean safe he Joins Magneto. Jean confronts Scott but he walks away with Magneto all he could say would be ' I would do what ever it takes to save us'.

Go a few issues with Scott with Magneto and Emma joining them, They go off fight the x men and Jean trys to talk to Scott and Emma calls him babe, Jean get jealous and fights Scott. When he is about to fire one close to her he misses. Move a few issues and is Jeans bday she finds a cactus in her room with a single red ballon.

You have a few fights more and Jean merging with the Phoenix. Casandra as the next x men enemy on the last fight she teasys Jean on how Scott is with Emma ( but yeah they are not together.) so Jean beats her to next century. Jean had it with Scott and goes to him, she finally see that Scott is trap in his own mind fighting Apocalypse every second to keep him trap as not to go after Jean. Jean and Apocalypse fight and a epic fight bit she can not hurt him, killing him would mean killing Scott. This time around Scott steals the Phoenix from Jean and choose to die. X man uses all his power to stop this but burns out. He saves Scott but dies. The last scene would be Jean holding Scott in her arms but crying, even though she got her husband back they lost a son. We can move forward with Jean and Scott trying to rebuild their relationship. Scott taking back on being a leader and Jean running the School.


Anyways lol so many ways to change it give, Scott having a mind atrong enough to keep Apocalypse lock up might have been the reason Jean could not read his thoughts.
Morrison there where 22 ways I found to do this atory that didn't involve cheating or killing Jean.